Cows killed another poor dog walker

[Pippetypoppity]

I’ve just seen on the BBC news that a lady has been killed in a field by cows. She was walking her chihuahua. This is absolutely tragic. She possibly ran with dog and was chased. That would be my guess as the same happened to me on our farm when I was very young. Your instinct is to save your dog and run. I remember I had a sheep dog puppy in my arms and I’d gone into the field to play. I was about 6 I think. The cows noticed the puppy from quite a distance away and the whole herd started moving in. Luckily I was close enough to the gate to get out, but it was terrifying. I remember my father on the yard yelling ‘Drop the puppy’ at the top of his lungs. I didn’t but I’d have been a gonner if I was another 50 yards in. I just want to tell everyone what my father said to me that day. It’s stuck in my mind ever since and it’s important anyone who dog walks in the country knows it too

1. If you see cows with calves leave the field by the nearest exit immediately. Cows often charge to protect their young
2. If you see cows without calves and they start moving quickly towards you they are being inquisitive. If you have a dog with you the cows will want to know if it is a threat. They see dogs instinctively as predators. If you cannot get to a gate and they are approaching- startle them by shouting jumping, waving your arms and making yourself appear as loud, big and threatening as possible. This will frighten them and make them stop or bypass you.
3. If they persevere it will be because they want to force your dog out of the field. Let the dog go! This is critical. Your dog can run faster than cows and much much faster than you. The cows will then focus on the dog and you can get away.
4. Never ever pick up the dog if cows are refusing to back off. This is the hardest thing in the world to do as all your instincts will compel you to try and protect it. It stands a better chance running and dodging them however than it does in your arms. You will then avoid becoming a target yourself and being trampled.
5. When cows move quickly in a large group the ones at the front get pushed by the ones at the back even if they themselves try to slow down. They will not be trying to mow you down but the sheer force from behind might mean they do. For this reason if cows approach in a group and your initial efforts to threaten and scare them failed, make that momentum go in a different direction ie after your dog.

I am so so dreadfully sorry to hear that this has happened again. The lady in question was inevitably a devoted extremely responsible and loving pet owner. She must have been to have been giving her chihuahua a country walk. I expect for this very reason she picked her dog up when she saw the cows getting near. Poor poor lady.

This is very dangerous advice. Carry a stick and wave it at the cows but never actually hit one- you will get kicked . I work with horses and cattle. Lots of big arm/ stick waving to scare them away before they get too close is good. If you are close enough to make contact, you are too close to start annoying a cow! A single kick can be fatal.

So the option is never leave your house? Or walk along a road with no footpath? Get home after dark because you've had to walk miles out of your way? Trespass on private land that doesn't have cows in it?

Public rights of way should be able to be used by the public, without any of the ridiculous victim-blaming that you are indulging in.

Yes you’re right- keep dogs on leads near live stock. The vast majority of the time cows will ignore you or at worst perhaps need a bit of shouting at if they get too nosey. The time you need to let the dog go however is if cows begin to become aggressive towards the dog. It’s a last resort move to ultimately save yourself if that makes sense? The dog can run away and the cows will follow it. You would be in danger if you remained attached to the dog they are trying to chase. Of course the reliable exception to this rule is cows with calves. They are quite simply too dangerous and should always be avoided. Don’t go through a field with a dog when there are mothers and calves. Just don’t.

I'm not sure what you're frothing about. Now you're talking about victim blaming. What exactly are you a victim of?

You chose to live in an area where you have no accessible public transport and can't drive, get a cab or ride a bike. You have to walk 40 minutes through woodland and cow fields which is dangerous in the dark and are blaming people on the internet for your predicament.

Walk through cow fields don't walk through cow fields, I don't care.

Those deaths are accidental. A farmer knowingly putting dangerous livestock into a field where the public must pass is not.
If you look at the HSE website many farmers have been prosecuted for doing exactly this.

A driver who knowingly sets out with bald tyres, faulty breaks or without a driving licence is no different to your hypothetical farmer.
Farmers are not out to get innocent ramblers. But animals are unpredictable both the two legged and four legged ones.
Animals are also very valuable and can easily hurt themselves if they stampede an innocent rambler resulting in a hefty vet bill or even loss of life.Farmers are unlikely to risk losing an animal just to upset the general public.

This is exactly what happened to us once. My partner is from Yorkshire and we often go on hikes through the dales. Public footpaths frequently take you through cow fields, although we try alternative routes where ever possible.

Once myself, DH and two young children walked the length of a field which met with an open road. As we went over the bow of the field down to where it met the road we were faced with an entire herd of cows, including mothers and calves. the mothers were edging towards us and the calves were really skittish. We put both children on our shoulders but It was the most terrifying thing having to navigate our way through and race over the cattle grate. After reading all this I wonder now if we should have headed back, but it was 2 hours into a hike and I’m not sure how many other routes there were into the road. Scary stuff.

Well yes - glad you agree!

Many farmers do take the trouble to fence off livestock appropriately or apply to get footpaths moved.
Many just won't bother as they know it prevents the majority of people from accessing the land and so be it if one does and gets injured by cattle.

There are Government Stewardship schemes which actually pay for fencing so farmers can't complain about having to use their own money.

Faulty logic

I live in the country, married into a farming family and know a lot of farmers. They are far more concerned about the bottom line than upsetting walkers. Cattle are difficult to miss unless it is dark or foggy, the hazard is pretty obvious. So yes faulty logic, you cannot see bald tyres or a drunk driver.

But you can see a f@*king cow. If you saw a herd walking down Oxford street on a busy Saturday you would probably alter your route. They are no less dangerous in a field. Ancient rights to drive cattle through towns and cities are still just as valid as ancient public rights of way through fields. My son’s school still confers grazing rights to the head boy. He can graze three sheep on the college green. Since a lot of pupils are from farming families at least one head boy has exercised the right in the last ten years.

Until the 1930s cattle were driven to market by foot and remnants of that practice can still be seen. They used chains looped between posts along the road to stop the cattle straying off the road. Now they are decorative but they still exist.

We would have to check our gates morning and evening when the local farmer still had a milking herd. They would regularly detour into the garden if you left the gate open at milking time.

Now I do know that farmers regularly muck spread the week before bank holidays. Just in time for the masses of visitors to experience authentic countryside air. They will also store large mounds of guano next to popular paths so walkers have to share their car with a dog that has rolled in the guano. It’s an odour that months of air freshener has no affect on.

Wow, I feel so stupid that I wasn't aware of all the risks - I thought it was only bulls I needed to be wary of. A lot of posters are talking about this as common sense, but ultimately that's an unhelpful criticism if it doesn't lead to learning, as the OPs post has done so well. I'm thinking back now on all my walks through fields grateful my ignorance didn't lead to any trouble!

Again the farmers on this thread can't see beyond their own bubble. In their eyes the countryside is theirs and nobody else has the right to be in or enjoy it. My friends are exactly like this and, the worst thing is they don't even realise!

I can see it's a very different world they live in. It's a very detached life from the rat race that the majority of the country have to endure.

Saying not to walk through a field with livestock is effectively equal to saying don't walk through the countryside.

I am in the countryside weekly and it is bullsh1t to say you will always know when cows are in the field. So many times you'll come across their path without knowing. Also, if you do go to back track they are often in the place that you just came from (because they've just been let into that field). I've only had a handful of tricky situations with cows and the worst two happened to be this year. Generally, they are okay to walk past if your sensible and at least understand them.

It's the attitude of the farmers and particularly my experience this year that clearly highlights there is an issue between farmers and non-farmers. This thread is also doing a good job of showing farmers don't want general public walking through their land albeit legally.

Of course the numpties that don't respect the countryside is an issue but, equally the perceived attitude of the farmers appears to be just as bad.

Corporate companies have a responsibility to ensure the land their buildings are on is not a danger to the public or their staff. Farms are no different in this respect. Going back to my fishing club, we have a responsibility to maintain the bank and also ensure that the public rights of way that go through some of the fisheries are safe and accessible! Thinking about it this is exactly the same. After floods we repair paths/ tracks etc. When there is a danger we section off or divert. Often our banks run adjacent to the farm land and as such we have rules like dogs being banned on certain stretches etc

Job Centre: "So why did you miss your signing-on appointment?"
Claimant: "There were cattle in the field between me and the bus stop and by the time I'd walked three miles around, the bus had long gone and the next one couldn't get me here in time."
JC: "And you took that rental because..?"
C: "There weren't any cattle in the field in January when I signed the rental agreement!"

Anyone who has had the misfortune to miss a JC appointment will know that no excuse will fly. (I found this out when I had my wallet stolen and couldn't pay for the bus until my new card arrived (this predated the cardless withdrawal scheme), even with a crime number, the JC's argument was that I should have borrowed money from a neighbour. Because neighbours are so noted for lending money to unemployed people.) So the claimant has to walk through that field of cattle.

Repeat for jobs, GP appointments, etc.

PRoWs weren't created so that "townies" could use the countryside as a theme park. They were created so that country dwellers could get to where they need to be.

Good one!👏

If the farmers didn't protect the countryside we wouldn't have a countryside

That’s so incredibly cruel.

Farmers don't protect the countryside, they exploit it. It's a necessary exploitation, but it's exploitation all the same.

Legislation protects the countryside. Not farmers.

Yes, they do help. There are other organisations such as fishing clubs that also have a vested interest in protecting the countryside. That's not the argument here.

Protecting the countryside doesn't mean having to purposely inhibit the public from rights of way and in some cases make it purposely unsafe.

So if a farmer puts cows with calves in a field with a public right of way and a member of the public is killed or injured, is the farmer liable? Health and Safety breach?

Not if the farmer has done his risk assessment and done everything asked of him to mitigate those risks.. ie, flagging the risk, signage, possible diverts/safe routing, fencing etc if however, he knowingly is undertaking that risk then yes he is liable.

It would also come down to a case-by-case basis. Ie, did the person do something silly such as have a dog off the lead causing distress.

The authorities should be working with the farmers with this. From an earlier post I believe that they actually do. The farmer should have a route into the authorities to flag his concerns regarding safety in conjunction with the public rights of way through their land. The liability is then shared as they should instruct what measures to take and agree on the solution.

Thanks for the info @Vineman

Yes more often than not.

Recent article here:

brodies.com/insights/health-and-safety/risks-caused-by-cattle-hse-farm-safety-initiative-and-prosecution-update/

Farmers need to put protection in place for the general public.

That’s what happens if you buy a chihuahua…

don’t do it.

Don't be silly. If you act like someone is deliberately courting injury because they've had the temerity to assume a clearly-marked public right of way is an accessible, useable footpath, then yes, you are victim-blaming.

(I wasn't living there, thank god - only staying for the duration of a course, as accommodation closer was too expensive.)

You chose to live in an area where you have no accessible public transport and

Or you're a child and your parents chose to live there. Or it was a cheap rental and you're too skint to move somewhere pricier.

Rural landowners: "I hate being responsible for keeping PRoWs on my land safe."
Also rural landowners: "Why won't anyone rent my barn conversion that's two miles away from the main road and requires walking along a PRoW to reach the nearest shop?"

PRoWs are infrastructure for rural dwellers and not everyone is a rural dweller by choice.