Disappearances of women and rivers

[Cm19841]

I am just reading the terrible story about Victoria Taylor and the suggestion she fell into the river Derwent.

There have a been a number of these stories recently. They are all awful. But I can't recall this happening so frequently in the past. Am I wrong? Did this happen and it was less reported? Is it incredibly risky to walk alone by riverbanks, all the more so if you are female? How dangerous is this?

There have been inexplicable cases of dead young men found in bodies of water in various US cities as well since the late 90s. The deaths are highly suspicious, many with drowning not even the actual cause of death.
It's thought by many to be copycat serial killers or perhaps a group of organized killers. It's known as the Smiley Face killer theory. Currently it's happening in Pittsburgh PA.

Libby Squire, found in the Humber Estuary in 2019. She had been raped and murdered, but her killer tried to dispose of her body in the water.

I've heard of way more men falling into rivers, particularly young men. Women just attract more media attention

If someone was going round pushing people into rivers sooner or later someone would be pushed and survive to tell the tale.
I think women get reported on more.

Two years ago I was walking one evening with my dogs along the drain/river as I often did whilst eldest was at a cubs meeting. One of my dogs went for his usual swim but could not get out at all, I went down to him, as it was where a fisherman had flattened out the bank next to the water. As I pulled him out, I fell in, it was surprisingly deep and very, very silty and I could not get a foothold to climb out it kept giving way. I could not get out at all, began panicking as my phone was in the car, dogs getting stressed too and no one around. I swam a bit further down, to some bramble bushes & dragged myself out. I was covered in bramble splinters, cold & very wet in summer and quite shaken. I genuinely thought I would be dragged out of the pumping station by the marsh weeks later all bloated. Mine was an accident and very easily done, regular walk & strong swimmer but bloody hell it was close & frightened me, never been back. When I read those missing near water stories I remind myself how easy it is to fall in accidentally aside from the possibility of suicide.

The only other incidents I can recall in recent years, other than the very high profile and tragic accident in Lancashire, was a male child and a young male student.
I don’t think rivers are any more dangerous to women?

I agree with OP , very convenient way to get rid of someone. Also aware of Manchester and York issues too.

You do need to be careful, and men do kill their wives and girlfriends quite frequently it seems.

God that was awful. Watched a three part series on that case on Sky Crime I think it was. Libby's mum was so lovely. She wanted to speak to the monster who did it, he agreed to, then changed his mind. She wanted to know how she died, and if she was already dead when he put her in the water. The monster wouldn't even give her closure for that. Of course to do so he'd have needed a conscience, which someone who is capable of murder is devoid of.

Why would so many choose drowning to end their life? It must be awful to basically suffocate as your lungs fill with water. There’s easier ways to take your life.

This. Rivers and bridges over water are popular suicide spots. The confirmed suicides tend not to be reported because of the media guidelines on not reporting suicides.

The ones that make the news tend to be deaths under investigation but can be accidental, unconfirmed suicides or foul play.

She’s currently still just ‘missing’

Google Missing white women syndrome. It is factual.

I do work in this field, (voluntarily)There is more in the media than there used to be. And unfortunately these stories generate a lot of ‘clicks’

I am unsure of the actual statistics. I do know men on a night out, if they’re missing they are statistically most likely to be in a body of water. If not found within 48hrs.

A friend of mine was found in the river many months after she went missing one night. her fone had been found abandoned on a bench shortly after She disappeared and then other belongings were found in the river shortly after that, but it took a long time before her body was found and I think the only reason it made the news was because of the delay in finding her. And even then it was a local news story not a national one. She was very depressed and it was assumed she took her own life. That was over a decade ago. So it's not a new thing, but I think so much more gets broadcast to a wider geographical area now thanks to much higher social media usage that it just seems to be more frequent.

I'm not sure. I'm in Ireland, I suppose there is a lot of water. A very close relative of mine died this way as did a friend. I live in a city with a fast flowing river, we actually have a charity that was set up after 4 deaths in one week who patrol the river and canals at weekends to try and help anyone that might need it. One winter in particular I remember it was just awful, it seemed like there was never ending news of missing people. There is never any suggestion of foul play, I think a lot of it in my city in particular comes down to the fact that it's just a well known thing, I wouldn't necessarily call it contagion but when someone goes missing in the city unfortunately the river is usually the culprit.

It's really sad obviously but there is no big conspiracy theory just awful mental health services.

I've seen quite a few people fall down a riverbank I frequently walk along. Fortunately, it isn't deep, so they only end up injured and wet instead of dead. I've also seen a couple of cyclists go in.

Drowning (and death by suffocation) is famously one of the nicer ways to die. There is euphoria after the initial panic.

There have been numerous people who have died in rivers, it happens every year. It's happened for years. Some make the news, most don't.

The idea that there's anything sinister connecting them is ridiculous. It's been a common method of suicide in all the years I've worked in the police

What you also need to remember is very often things are known by family & the police that never reach the public domain.

There was similar hysteria where I work several years ago when a young person was recovered from the river a week or so after going missing. What the armchair detectives didn't know was there was cctv of the person walking to the riverside putting their belongings down & calmly jumping in

The documentary the other night made it very clear SM speculation had been hurtful & damaging - yet here we are again

The advantage of water suicides (as long you don't jump in from a high bridge) is that in many cases you can change your mind during and just swim to shore. If you jump from a high place, hang or shoot yourself, there's no way to go back.
So that might explain the popularity of it.

I can't remember names , but I have heard many news reports of boys and men ending up in the water too. It's not always national news, and sometimes they are rescued and survive.

Water is a danger to everyone.

I heard a theory that a lot of the men who die in this way do so because they’re drunk, need to urinate, and do so into the canal/river. Peeing then causes them to go lightheaded and they fall in. I was recently reading Dr Richard Shepherd’s memoir - he’s a forensic pathologist and he mentions a case where he’s asked to look at a male corpse who’s been found in a river and can tell instantly what happened as the man’s flies are open. He implies this is routine.

This article calls it “micturition syncope” and says it happens to some people with alcohol use (quoting another forensic pathologist);

https://metro.co.uk/2024/02/04/amsterdam-canals-men-drowning-city-urinals-20221032/amp/

This must be some of the cases. But as PPs have said, I’m sure suicide or missteps account for the others.

I used to live in York and people (usually young men) going missing then being found in the river was unfortunately very common.

As others have said, people have always died by rivers and bodies of water and in the vast majority of cases it is either an accident or they have taken their own life. With 24/7 news we just hear about it more often, and with cases like Nicola Bulley making headline news media outlets are more likely to pick these sort of stories up. It is extremely sad but I don't think it is anything suspicious.

Yes, our neighbour's son drowned in the river in York after a night out. Too much alcohol etc. Heartbreaking.

I don't think it a coincidence that Nicola Bulley drowned at the same time she was suffering with severe menopausal symptoms. Menopause sent me to a very bleak place that I was lucky to return from. My great aunt ended up being sectioned due to (what we now realise were) severe menopause symptoms. More women commit suicide between the ages of 48 and 52 than at any other time in their lives.

I must admit op that the thought occurred to me that perhaps there is a serial killer out there that we don't know about.

Especially after I watched a crime documentary saying that it's actually quite difficult to be a serial killer nowadays because of the level of forensic scrutiny available to the police. And of course water serves the dual purpose of killing and washing away evidence.

But then it occurred to me that if I have had the same thought, and if it's a legitimate theory, then someone high up in the police must have already considered that possibility.

I agree with what you said but I do think the police do know.

I live in Swansea and theres usually one or two people go missing in the river every year, mostly men, often students walking back from town after a few drinks.

I don't think its reported very widely outside local news, because they're usually found fairly quickly