DS not friends with clever kids. Does it matter?

[horribleperson22]

Ok I've changed my username name for this as I know this thread makes me sound like a truly awful person. Maybe I am.
My good friend is a teacher and she has always said when your child is in primary it is the parents that determine how well your child will do through encouragement, support, helping with homework etc. However at secondary school their friendship group is the biggest factor in how well they do in school.
I have friends whose DSs made friends at secondary school with other boys who were really clever and their kids were competitive and tried to outdo their friends in tests and exams and did really well in school.
Now, my DS is 14 and doing fairly well in most subjects in school-he's not the cleverest but not the worst either. His three best friends in school are lovely, polite, nice, good fun boys and their families are really nice too. However they have fantastically failed most class tests so far. They joked at getting 4% in the most recent maths test-they thought it was hilarious. I'm getting a little concerned that this might rub off on my DS at such a crucial time in his education.
I've obviously not mentioned this to him at all and so far he seems content to work for class tests etc.
Am I worrying over nothing or do you think this may affect his exam prep?

I think lovely, polite, nice, good fun boys and their families are really nice too is worth a massive amount too

I don't think it's all 'good fun' if they're deliberately failing tests and laughing about it?

Honestly they sound lovely. I wouldn't sweat it. As long as DS knows to work hard and try his best, that is all that matters. The only thing I would be concerned about is if my DCs friends were actively disengaging from school and playing up, and thereby encouraging my DCs to do the same.

It is an important life skill to rub along with people with all sorts of different skills and interests, and to also learn to hold onto what is part of your own core value base. I would encourage both of these things and the friendships will sort themselves out.

As someone whose parents were snooty about my school friends not being clever/ambitious enough, please don't do this to your child.

As long as his friends are good friends and don't take the piss out of him for caring about his academic achievements, or encourage him not to try, then don't interfere.

I think it’s fair to wonder about whether it will impact him - it very easily could. He could also very easily have an impact on the others and make them cop on.

I’d just keep an open line of communication about school work and tests and marks. Make sure he understands that he needs to study and try his best. Watch for any falling grades and make sure homework is completed.

You should be delighted that he’s picked “lovely, polite, nice, good fun boys and their families are really nice too” Last thing that you want is for your child’s friends to be bullies or engaging in antisocial criminal behaviour because they come from friends who dgaf if their boys end up being adults in prison.

I’m afraid this is why parents pay for independent schools or move mountains to get into grammar schools - so both parents and school peers are all on the same page with regard to striving for academic success. (Even pupils who don’t personally care about this know what is expected of them.)

If you’re otherwise satisfied with the school it might be a good idea to find some extracurricular activities where your son will come into contact with a more competitive bunch.

DD2 did get dropped and criticized by some of her friends round exam revision - Y10 they sit some GCSE exams here in wales- luckily while she was upset she did still work and listened to DS - Y12 - who just said they were on different path to her and she needed to work to get what she needed.

Those friends did end up doing quite badly - to point they had to rethink plans - and once that was done are friendly again with DD2 - in meantime she got friendly with some others mix of more academic and not.

I think hard as it was she was very grown up and did realise what she needed to do.

DS not all his mates were very academic he just kept plodded along and ended up doing a lot better than expected - it was never an issue between them.

So keep an eye on him but no it's not necessarily a problem just make sure he knows he needs to work - and ask for help if struggling.

It does make a difference, not being academically bright isn't the issue though that's fine, it's the attitude to learning that is important.

Not naturally academic but tries hard, does their homework to the best of their ability and asks for help is great.

Naturally academically gifted, prats about all lesson, does no homework, coasts all the way through school distracting their not so bright friends (who do badly at their GCSEs) and sails through GCSEs is an issue.

As are those that act the big 'I am' at school, that GCSEs aren't important, distracting friends who also think GCSEs don't matter and pretend not to do anything but actually have well engaged parents and a tutor at home. Those ones sail through and their friends are really annoyed.

Yes, friendships groups do matter at secondary.

You can't really do much about it once they have formed though, and it sounds like your DS isn't taking their path.

If they keep getting 4% in class tests they'll probably be moved groups anyway and he'll be with other kids in class.

Year 9 friendships are often in flux and things will change alot when GCSEs start in yr 10. Some boys in particular start working more as they mature and start GCSEs.

One of mine, up until sixth form, was always best friends with one kid or another with very little in the way of academic ambition, turbulent home lives and a tendency to be frequently in trouble with school. However they were perfectly pleasant and polite in my home, and I much preferred hosting those children to their more cosseted peers. And my DC got into Oxford, so nobody could say their choice of friends held them back.

It's a form of bravado, pretending to be proud of terrible exam results. Be happy your son has lovely friends. If he's academically gifted anyway, then his friendship group won't be important with regard to exam results.

Yeah, if DS is 4 then it's not much of a worry.

But at this age, peers are crucial. 4% is failing on purpose.

Agree with this. It’s why I wanted my DC to go private.

I don’t think the school add much academically to be honest- it’s the peer group that matters.

But OP- I think your son’s friends sound lovely. The fact they come from nice families and are polite is a great bonus. And arguably far more valuable- they make school a place he wants to be.

hanging out with super competitive kids can be counter productive.

14 is a tricky age and they’re still finding themselves- they sound like the kind of kids who will knuckle down at exam time. Boys especially take a bit longer than girls to settle into hard work, but catch up in later years.

It’s not going to matter unless your DS is a total follower who is unduly influenced by his peers.

My parents forced me to maintain a friendship with a girl at high school because she was clever. She horrifically bullied me and used to beat me up, isolated me from other friends, would steal my things. I was too worried to tell them because they thought she was fantastic, as did everyone else in my year groups. So bright, so kind and a big future ahead of her. No one would have believed me. I managed to escape her as another girl in my class befriended me and wouldn't leave. Having 'lovely, polite, nice, good fun' friends saved my life.

It might help him if they were more academically focused. However, I think count your blessings here. The main thing is they come from nice families who you are more likely to be on the same page with and this is really reassuring.

Whilst we'd love our children to have friends who wil boost their grades the real concern is do they make your child happy? Are they genuine friends that care about him? Would they contact you if they needed to? And are they likely to bring bad influences into his life?

I think competitive children are often created in a home environment although they might go on to compete with peers. Some people just aren't competitive. My high achieving friends did not do anything for my grades unfortunately!

I'm in a similar position OP. My DS is in year 10, he's a bright boy and his friends are, well, just not. They're nice boys though. So far it seems to be ok and he's still working hard and doing well. I really hope it will continue like this.

Thanks everyone. Your replies are really helpful. I value education so highly as I was brought up in the most depressing, deprived, violent, druggy area and my only way out was education. I am the only person in my whole extended family to go to uni.
My DS is at a private school for those saying the answer is paying for an independent school. We sacrifice a lot to pay for this which makes me even more twitchy. There's a massive range in abilities at his school.
I am very grateful he's not being bullied and not in a horrible friendship group. I really don't know if he'll go with the crowd and stop studying as he gets older. It's hard to know but we'll definitely still encourage him.

I was in top sets for everything while my friend group was in the bottom for everything. It didn't affect me and how hard I worked.

They were the people I hung out with when not doing school work to have fun and recharge. They didn't hold me back and I'd have been offended if my parents thought they did.

Thanks @DoAWheelie good to know it didn't affect you. I'm presuming you're female though. I just think boys are different. They are slower to mature and just a bit silly! Well that's my experience anyway.

Friends are very important but I think your son’s friends sound fine OP. And the joking about 4% may very well be hiding crushing disappointment at the result.

If your son is 14, I assume he’s year 9? I found this the worst year for effort at school with my DS, quite frankly he did the bare minimum. Halfway through year 10 it was like a light bulb went on and he started working, he got 6s and 7s at GCSEs - not stellar but enough to do what he wanted for A levels. He really knuckled down in sixth form and did very well and is now at university. His friends were a mixture of academic and not. So based on my experience with DS, they can and do knuckle down. I always emphasised it was effort that I appreciated rather than grades, if he looked at his results and thought I couldn’t have worked any harder to get them, then that’s what matters.