DS not friends with clever kids. Does it matter?

[horribleperson22]

Ok I've changed my username name for this as I know this thread makes me sound like a truly awful person. Maybe I am.
My good friend is a teacher and she has always said when your child is in primary it is the parents that determine how well your child will do through encouragement, support, helping with homework etc. However at secondary school their friendship group is the biggest factor in how well they do in school.
I have friends whose DSs made friends at secondary school with other boys who were really clever and their kids were competitive and tried to outdo their friends in tests and exams and did really well in school.
Now, my DS is 14 and doing fairly well in most subjects in school-he's not the cleverest but not the worst either. His three best friends in school are lovely, polite, nice, good fun boys and their families are really nice too. However they have fantastically failed most class tests so far. They joked at getting 4% in the most recent maths test-they thought it was hilarious. I'm getting a little concerned that this might rub off on my DS at such a crucial time in his education.
I've obviously not mentioned this to him at all and so far he seems content to work for class tests etc.
Am I worrying over nothing or do you think this may affect his exam prep?

@mrssquidink a few of my friends with older boys have said the same-their DSs knuckled down as they got older and did well so I just hope my DS and his friends do the same.
@Sunnyplain he doesn't 😭 that's what I'm worried about. I know my DS's friends' parents tell their kids to study for tests but my DS said they simply go to their bedrooms and do anything but study! I make my DS study in our kitchen so I can help him/watch him and test him a lot after he has studied.

DB was the disruptive, rude, kid and he seemed to collect clever and sensible kids like Thanos and his rings. Made no difference to anyone because parental influence still matters at secondary.

Personally I’d be more worried about the standard of teaching in a fee paying school where kids are getting 4% in tests!

@FlatWhiteExtraHot well yes! I guess they don't have a magic wand. If the kids don't study at all and don't apply themselves the school can only do so much.
I think the school is good for my DS so I can only base my opinion on my own experience.

My DS is at a private school for those saying the answer is paying for an independent school.

I would have expected such a school to set more of a tone of working hard TBH.

My DC is a failing state school (not when moved here) with a poor social economic intake with a disruptive change in leadership few years ago that only just settling down. There is messaging from school and peers that we have to counter at home and seemed to manage to do so but do think in another better school it would have been easier on us and them to get to the same place.

I'm in two minds.
My very clever DS was so desparate for acceptance he got in with the sporty set. When he told me he was ashamed because he got top marks in maths and everyone laughed at him you can imagine how I felt. These lads were nice and from nice families but not who I would have chosen.
Fortunately his natural ability over rode at secondary and when he got to sixth form he suddendly grew up and worked hard. He got top grades while friends failed. Some of those kids still did well in life, some not so much but he still keeps in touch.
Private school might be different. Those kids with wealthy parents - it's not so important for them to succeed, a bit like farmers' children who have a career whatever happens. Also more money = more drugs about IME.

I think as others have said cleverness is the wrong metric. You can have a very clever child in a secondary school who does no work, because they are bright enough to coast along with good grades without studying etc. Someone like that is a worst influence, especially if they are also a bit badly behaved and disruptive (but smart enough to know not to push it too far). Because they will have the attitude that studying is stupid etc, but still do well whereas your own child may copy their attitude and fail. Polite hardworking friends are the best option. Besides, if they keep failing then it is possible their families will rethink the whole "studying in bedrooms" plan/put pressure on and their grades will go up. Its early days.

Just to say that my older two boys did start to focus and try harder once in Y10.

One of my boys was deliberately failing tests as didn't want to be in tops sets, but I spoke to school and we got things sorted.

My youngest struggles academically but may make out to friends that they aren't trying but that really isn't the case.

His three best friends in school are lovely, polite, nice, good fun boys and their families are really nice too

These kids sound great.

their kids were competitive and tried to outdo their friends in tests and exams

These kids sound like over-competitive pricks.

But he’s never going to have your hunger. I get where you’re coming from because DH and I both got out from deprived backgrounds via education, but our DS has grown up in a comfortable, prosperous household, and knows he has options. It’s not a matter of life or death to him the way it was to us. I see the same with our friends’ children. It’s actually a good thing. Would you really want your child to approach education as a lifeline out of an intolerable present?

My 11 year old son has moderate learning disabilities. He is the loveliest boy, really keen to learn. He is so happy to be in secondary school and doing things like cooking and making things out of wood. He has a best friend who also has learning disabilities. I am gutted to learn that so many of you wouldn't want your child to be friends with mine because my child isn't clever. That's absolutely awful. My son has his moments like they all do at his age but most of the time he and his best friend are beautifully well behaved, well mannered and kind. Anyone would be fortunate to have either of them as a friend.

I'm so sorry this thread has upset you @elliejjtiny. However my DS's friends don't have LDs but choose not to apply themselves at school. That's two very different situations. I knew what I posted would be offensive and not nice to hear and that's why I changed my username.
We all just want the best for our kids and I want my DS to do well at school. I'm afraid he's my only priority right now.

@PaperGloves completely agree. I do worry that DS doesn't have my hunger and has a relatively comfortable life but yes I guess I wouldn't change it for my upbringing!

Define the word clever OP

@Cattery gets over 70% consistently in tests/exams. Articulates themselves well when speaking.

@horribleperson22 I get what you’re saying, I do. I have two adult sons. Were their friends “clever” at school? Middling I guess. A few went to university (as did my youngest son). One of my older son’s friends didn’t and he’s in the City on £500k a year now. I tell you what both boys sets of friends are: kind, funny, loyal, ambitious. If your DS friends have those qualities then they’re winners in life x

Thanks @Cattery that's really nice to hear. I just think life is really tough now with the CoL crisis and the workplace even more so with the advent of AI. I seriously worry about his future and how he'll manage and what he'll do. I'm a worrier....
I also am aware uni is not the path to all riches. My DH didn't go to uni and he has his own business that does very well. He has an inferiority complex about not going to uni though which he really shouldn't!

If they’re loyal, fun and kind that’s worth the weight in grades. My son was in a group of very competitive kids-Oxbridge applicants among them and he bombed his a levels. He wasn’t like that at all and needed to find his feet where he felt confident rather than trying to outdo his friends. He got a first after doing a foundation year then did a masters with a distinction in a great uni. He found his people at uni and said it was so relaxing and nice to have friends where you weren’t being judged all the time on your grades, interests and hobbies. So be grateful your son has found good friends-he’ll probably be streamed for ability anyway so will be with his peers in class-and support from parents still matters a great deal.

@horribleperson22 I do think youngsters with a degree have the advantage in the job market but I also believe apprenticeships are marvellous too. Some fantastic careers out there for professional plumbers, gas fitters, electricians etc. Rule nothing out and a great bunch of mates who’ll be in your corner for life is so important x

but more about not having the mickey taken when a child wants to work hard.

@horribleperson22 that was the most important with dc1.
Being surrounded by people who did take the mickey/bullied those worked hard did him no favour at all (and is one of the reason why we moved him to a private school).
Dc2 though needed clear expectations and being surrounded by people who wanted to do well + the school environment who expected students to do well and want to do well made a big difference to him.

BUT as your personal experience shows, it’s not just about grades and going to Uni. Imo the biggest difference is the drive and ambition and my two ds didn’t quite develop that until they were at Uni.

NOW dc1 who was ‘well I’ve done the minimum, that’s enough’ type of guy is working his ass off. Both at Uni, outside Uni in his hobby (lots of volunteering and organising) and when he did some placements. I’m confident that this will make all the difference.

One last word - getting 70% constantly isn’t always being clever. It can also be the sign of someone working hard.
You’ll have clever people who dint work and get crap results.

Thanks @ComingBackHome for your personal experience. As far as I'm aware my DS's friends don't take the mick when he studies and I think congratulate him when he does well in exams. And congratulate him in a sincere way which is really nice.
I think i maybe didn't use the correct word when I said 'clever', I think I meant working hard/studying etc. My DS needs to study as he isn't naturally amazingly clever. He does well when he studies.

This was exactly my ds at 14. No effort. Couldn't have cared less. Saw no point in school but loved the friends and all the fun. Roll on to 18 , new group of friends picked up on the way, joined the hardworking group gradually , did brilliantly and continued to do so at college. Be glad they are nice polite lads and he is happy at school and keep fingers crossed he will knuckle down as time goes on. It's a lot to do with maturity and how some boys are afraid to be considered swots at that age but soon cop on.

Thanks @junebirthdaygirl but your reply actual worries me more now 😂
My DS is hardworking and does quite well. His pals aren't. Your experience was your son did much better when he met hardworking friends. This is my fear that my DS would do so much better at school if his peers/pals were conscientious too.

I get why it makes you twitchy, but think of the stresses that made you work so hard. You wouldn’t wish them on your child. I’m still recovering in my 50s via therapy from aspects of my childhood.