Ambulance service: this needs to end

[Nichebitch]

Hear me out. My dd6 had an accident at the playground and badly hurt her back - she couldn’t move, couldn’t stand, had difficulty breathing and was in a lot of pain. At some point lips turning blue so we called 911.
And I really get it - they told me that as she could still draw a breath and was not bleeding, we would have to wait, they didn’t think it was a life or death situation. BUT - how is it tolerable to leave an agonising and not able to move small child with breathing difficulties waiting, with orders of not to move her, for over 1 hour. The ambulance never came, she seemed to be able to wiggle herself a bit so we decided to take a cab to the hospital - seen in under 20m. She’s recovering now.
not criticising the ambulance people, that’s not my point. The hospital wasn’t rammed either. But more people need to speak about this because it’s not bloody normal. I don’t know what the solution is nor should I know, it’s not my effing job.

@NewName24 that’s terrible, I hope your friend is ok.
in what kind of place we live that a person with a suspected stroke waits over 1h? And that’s the norm, and fixing that is not a priority?

I don’t think you should have put a child with an injured back in a taxi. You should have waited as instructed.

@Nichebitch I agreed with you that it needs to change. What else do I need to say to agree with you.

It's cost, time, resources that don't exist at the moment, it needs expert management to lead change. However, the NHS is a political football and it gets pulled and pushed by each political party that gets a go at running the country. Anything that requires long term planning, longer than 4 or 5 years is too long for politicians to care about because they may not be in power for any longer than that duration. It's the same issue that affects education, social care, etc etc.

I had to call an ambulance for DH early this week. They arrived in 20 mins. However when we got to the hospital there was no beds available in a&e. We spent a further 4 hours in the ambulance with treatment being carried out in the back. That’s probably what the wait was. I asked the ambulance crew who have to stay with the ambulance the whole time what sort of wait time was average to be in the ambulance and they said any time between 1 and 5 hours. There were 2 other ambulance with people in waiting for a bed in a&e. He didn’t get a bed on an actual ward till 3am so a whole day spent in a&e mostly waiting to be taken up to a ward.

I think you called for the right reason but no way my child would’ve been able to wait and stay still that long. Couldn’t fault the care my DH received however something does need to be done. Whether this is smaller a&e units in more areas or extend the pre-existing ones.

It definitely hasn't been like that for my memory.

I remember doing a First Aid course some years ago and (in response to one of the participants suggestion for dealing with a situation) the trainer pointed out that the (usually reached) target for an ambulance to reach you in our City, was 8 minutes. that really was the norm for an urgent case, and it isn't that many years ago I called an ambulance for a sporting injury (potential break of player's leg) - which is notoriously low down the priority list - and they were there in about 15mins.

live in the states am 20 miles from hospital and was taken in ambo 2xs in less than 15 minutes so insuerance can be a bother for some butyou will be treated quitely and if you are poor there are charites that help i
was in 24 days 123000$
after the charties got done only had 1500 $ and it was written of after 10 months now i am retired and cost with medicare .2 strokes 10teeth removed cataracts both eyes new glasses,colon test from home,lung cancer +
surgery+chemo+ follow test every 6 month catscan and lots of bloodtests
what this about you should not to worry about care ,need immedite help
sorry i have aphsasia .glad she is going be ok

It doesn’t work like this in other countries in Europe where health care is also free. In the UK there’s this strange conviction that because is free we it’s all good and that’s the only way it can be.

Edited due to misreading

Totally agree with your point op, this isn’t ok even though more urgent cases were rightly prioritised. The NHS desperately needs better management of finances (as well as more funding) so that this kind of thing doesn’t happen.

I have only called an ambulance twice, 20 years ago and 4 months ago and both came within 10 to 15 mins but both patients were unconscious and totally unresponsive. Must admit when I called, well my friend did for DH 4 months ago I was really worried how long it would take.

I had an ambulance a night in hospital and a CT scan about 17 years ago in America when on holiday. It cost $6000 but insurance covered it fortunately .

We have relatives in three other countries in Europe, it’s a mixture of free like the NHS paid through taxes and insurances as far as I’m aware.

Very true. Lived in the U.K. but now in Denmark and it opened my eyes to how appalling the U.K. healthcare system is. I can only imagine it’s gotten worse in the past 5 years since I left.

For comparison: last year the average arrival time for an ambulance here in Copenhagen was 6 minutes.

96.9% of all ambulances in emergency response situations reached the patient within 15 minutes.

And for non-emergencies it was still only 25 minutes - and that was considered too long.

I’ve always been able to get a same-day medical appointment here (booked online) here too.

I’m sorry about your daughter. I hope she’s okay now. It sounds incredibly frightening.

They HAVE to prioritise though and people need to be honest about severity. When my sister collapsed and stopped breathing it was after 2 calls to 999 to say she was badly struggling and barely breathing gasping for air, this had hit 30 min wait On the 3rd call we told them she wasn't breathing at all and it took a further 26 mins instead of the under 8 mins response time to get there because at that time everyone seemed to be ringing for ambulances that most didnt need!

They couldn't save her by that point.

Yes they do need to prioritise because it might prevent people from dying! In front of their children on Christmas Eve.

My elderly granny fell on her patio on a winter evening and broke her hip and was lying in the freezing cold for many hours before an ambulance showed up. Its appalling

Bad Chest pain. Heart rate at 130 and breathing oxygen sats at 75 waited nearly 2 hours for an ambulance

(Rural - No taxis- )

But A&E was just as bad when i got there and its a major trauma hospital in a big city

The NHS is broken

The problem seems to be the bottle neck when they get to the hospital. It's ridiculous ambulances are stuck for hours unable to drop a patient off. The hospitals should have some kind of area where paramedics can drop the patient and then the hospital staff can book them in.

The waiting time for ambulances is awful but changes need to come from a lot higher up the chain. The current system is completely broken

That's an absolute disgrace that!

It’s not right to have to wait hours for an ambulance but what do you want to do about.

Yep I laid on the floor with my then 7 year old who was septic, throwing up green bile, mottled , tachy and limp, rigouring with high fever. Complex medical needs including high risk sepsis that needs iv antibiotics with in an hour of any fever of 38. They put her on a low category, until I rang the third time when she was barely breathing. When the paramedics for to us you could see their faces immediately that they were in shock.
blue lights straight to recuse and I remember the poor guys stool outside for ages because they were so worried. They apologised continuously in the ambulance and said they didn’t know as it wasn’t a cat 1.

I agree, it’s awful and I am sick of people aggressively defending it as if they have been personally insulted. It’s an appalling service. My son had to wait 3 hours for an ambulance to turn up with a badly broken leg, on a cold rainy day. It then took another couple of hours to get him in the ambulance and to hospital so had to wait overnight for an operation, when the accident happened at midday. One of them also suggested we take him home for the night and bring him back in the morning as it was in the height of covid. His leg was in a shocking state and he was in terrible pain, but thankfully other staff outvoted that person. I really hope nothing like that, or worse happens again as there is no decent health service.

Live in a small rural town, not in UK now. We too have serious deficiencies in our health care system. However, i've been having severe cardiac issues, and the ambulance service has been faultless. We're 40 minutes from the nearest hospital, but they've been here in less than 10 minutes from the ambulance station in the village, given me nitroglycerine, stopped twice en route to hospital to take BP, administer meds, been utterly professional and thorough. Others I know of have not been so fortunate however. When we lived in the UK, my DH's ambulance care for the same cardiac condition, and when I had an anaphylactic incident, my care, was faultless, but I had to wait 3 years to have surgery on a rotator cuff tear.

she couldn’t move, couldn’t stand, had difficulty breathing and was in a lot of pain.

^

If this ain't an emergency I don't know what is

Some people just like being facetious

and who will look after them? There is no physical space. There are no nurses to look after them. Unless you want to tip them on the floor then there is no option. Ambulances will offload who they can to the waiting room but otherwise they are stuck.

The bottle neck absolutely is the problem. A&E is full of patients who should be on the wards. The wards are full of patients who should be getting surgery or scans or going to social care or home with carers. Unfortunately the Tories have spent the last decade fucking that up entirely.

Your friends wait was appalling, but the issue is so much more complex than just ambulance waiting times.

With 999 calls, triaging ‘red flag symptoms’ like significant bleeding, breathing problems, chest pain etc on the phone can be challenging. It’s often very difficult to ascertain exactly how serious a persons condition is without a face to face clinical assessment by ambulance staff. We already have a 111 system for less major issues.

Also, people ‘with suspected broken bones’ often need a proper clinical assessment, obs, analgesia, management of bleeding etc etc prior to an X-ray. They are often in significant pain and might require analgesia, anti sickness meds etc and to be on a bed or chair. Other than simple suspected fractures of small bones, patients couldn’t safely or reasonably be sent straight to X ray. In the Uk, we also have significantly less scanners etc than most other compatible countries, so capacity can be an issue, especially at night.

The ambulance queue issue is complicated, but is more to do with resources inside a&e. It’s common for most a&e depts now to run at, or close to, capacity all of the time now. If there are 14 ambulances outside then that is 14 clinical assessments needed, 14 spaces or beds to look after those patients in and the right amount of staff and resources. The UK also has less hospital beds, clinical staff, scanners etc etc than most ‘rich’ countries. It’s a recipe for the nightmare that we have.

if she can get in a cab, she wasn’t paralyzed.

I'm in Canada and ambulances come within a few minutes here.

I'm so sorry that happened to you and your DD. That's shocking to me.