Kids asked to stand for headteacher

[Worcswarrior]

So dd has just started high school. There is an expectation that the students stand up when the headteacher enters the assembly hall. Is this not a bit draconian in 2024?

Interesting points, though. They suggest that respect and manners are perhaps only owing when a person has the power to impose very real sanctions on you, rather than because it's been earned and willingly given or as basic courtesy which makes life pleasanter for everyone. I find that quite a sad indictment of our society. (IMO, some Judges are as mad as a vat of boiled squirrels, but that's quite another story).

IMO draconian rules about school uniform, for example, do little to inspire respect when attention is being expended on the colour of stitching on shoes, or the width of trouser-fabric from the leg, rather than on the actually important issue of providing an inspiring education. A teacher who can do this is a rarer breed but worth their weight in gold. One instils fear, the other aspiration. I know which I'd prefer to be.

It's also plain from certain threads posted on this site just today that ideas of good manners differ wildly on this site. There are some attitudes I find appalling that some Mumsnetters think perfectly acceptable, and some of what they consider rude I would dismiss as mere pedantry and nit-picking. Depends on upbringing, I suspect.

I keep seeing people using the word draconian on here - but the definition of it is excessively harsh or severe. Is it really draconian to expect people to wear school uniform or stand up when a teacher comes into the room? Manners and respect are about actions and are a sign of consideration for others - something very lacking in the world right now.

To me, draconian is something like the Taliban.

What op means is outdated, maybe deferential. I don't think it is.

100% agree about the pettiness, especially on the school-shoe thing- as long as it's not trainers then it shouldn't matter.

And there's also the pettiness about the branding, which shouldn't matter in a cost of living crisis.

Thank you for your input. I shall ensure I consult Mumsnet on my choice of vocabulary in future. Their members' highly articulate, always properly grammatically-constructed, spelled and punctuated posts, which never, ever use hyperbole or crude phrasing like 'boils my piss', are an inspiration to all. So solly, Sir'.

UK uniform rules are ridiculous. Making them wear blazers in the searing heat and refusing to allow their removal, dictating exactly what style of trousers they wear and isolating them at the slightest deviation, isolation again because shoes have a stitching-colour they don't like, standing next to girls with tape-measures to check the length of their skirts, lining them up and publicly shaming them for a 2mm deviation, are draconian measures. Those rules are draconian.

The behaviour of the Taliban and their like is totalitarian.

I ask no forgiveness for my choice of vocabulary, and it is just like Mumsnet to split hairs over inconsequential issues like this.

That’s how I was brought up, and taught my children too.

I do think that schools are draconian.

Teenagers get very little say in anything.

They are just told to follow rules and be quiet.

I think the system was designed to train humans to be subservient from a young age,

so that when they go into the workplace they will follow more rules and leaders (bosses).

I don't imagine very much of the GB teaching profession actually want to be treated like High Court Judges, but if they do we have a larger problem than kids not standing up.

Anyone want to explain why this doesn't happen at University?

At university if you so much as unintentionally address someone by the 'wrong' pronoun you're likely to find yourself hauled up in front of a disciplinary.

Universities are now a cut-throat business. The 'customer' - as they're now trained to think of themselves - rules. And boy don't they know it.

Perhaps if the voice of the school customer was similarly heard then the mental health of the nation's children would be in better shape?

Draconian school uniform rules including penalising pupils for their natural hair, putting children in isolation over shoes that were fine last term, and not giving children the right to put on their jumpers when they are cold or take of their blazers when they are hot. The latter leads to a smelly room for other pupils and the teacher.

Are you willing for your children to have a 9K loan a year just to be educated? And higher charges if they weren't in the UK two years ago?

Never had to do this at my secondary comp in the 00s. I think school rules have become more severe in the last few years by the sounds of it. A few posters have said it’s crowd control which sums up the education system in this country now. And rather than fix that, we seem to emulate the worst parts of corporate work environments from the 80s with hierarchy and dressing kids in blazers and ties. Yet when they actually enter the workplace, you only have to wear a uniform for practical reasons (e.g. nursing) or in a office you can wear what you want and a lot of modern CEOs dress like mark zuckerberg. And kids know it hence all the false rules around ‘respect’ and uniform are pushed back on. The idea that you’d stand for the CEO in my workplace would be laughable. You’d be the only one doing it.
also we say ‘respect is earned not given’ in most other situations in life, so what makes headteachers exempt from that?

You beat me to that response.

The state UKHE is in right now - and it's in free-fall - is directly because tuition fees have turned it into an aggressive business model as opposed to a system of education.

Who would ever have thought it would turn into a complete shit show?

We had to do it for every teacher, I think it’s fine.

Tbh I think a lot of the older forms of behaviour were just about good manners, standing when someone enters the room, being able to listen when someone is speaking to you, how to respond politely and respectfully. None of these things are bad.

Viewing schools this year and children stood when we entered during viewings.

Because boys sometimes use them to throw around. The teacher will know which boys are likely to do this.

I think you'll find families are the paying customer, whether state or private.

I don’t see anything wrong with it. I used to do similar and that was in the 2000s in the not nicest comprehensive! I think to voice another opinion to an 11 year old may be the start of a problem with authority…

We had to stand for the head from primary on. I remember being taught it at age 4. It's just manners.
The amount of people in my work who don't know to get up off their bum when being introduced to someone... manners serve you well in life I find.

@Worcswarrior

Agree it's a sign of respect & I imagine it's a good school which you actively chose.

Go and look round another school that's more relaxed. I bet the behaviour is worse & results lower.

Are you planning to put in a complaint??

It happened at the university and college I went to. Gavel bangs. Senior common room enter. Junior common room on the lower tables stand up. Mark of respect, also for Grace.