just got back from japan. omg wow.

[TheBlueHoney]

What a country! I saw much right there compared to Britain. 100x better infrastructure, friendlier people, safer street, luxury amazing looking roads, most well behaved children I've ever seen, modesty, people dress well, public transport etiquette, quality of food and healthy population, fantastic healthcare, longest life expectancy, lowest infant mortality, prices/affordability about same as London but get way more for your money everything better quality and no tipping culture, public bathrooms accessible everywhere and so clean and modern with built in tech. I could go on and on.

Japan is a terrible place to live if you're a woman especially mothers.

The Japanese birth rate is critically low. There will be no Japanese people left in a few generations if this continues.

Japanese women can't get fertility treatment unless they are married. When they are married they need their husbands permission to have an abortion. Pain relief in childbirth is frowned upon & difficult to get. There is no culture of part time work while DCs are young. There is a lack of childcare. Japanese women are expected to be SAHMs. The men aren't expected to do any childcare or housework at all. Due to the low birth rate a couple will often have 4 very elderly parents to care for and this falls on the woman. (There are very few care homes, it's against their culture).

On top of this Japanese women are expected to put up with their husbands porn use and 'use' of hostess/bar girls.

https://www.bokksu.com/blogs/news/empowerment-and-challenges-the-state-of-being-a-woman-in-japan-today#:~:text=The%20Evolving%20Role%20of%20Women%20in%20Japanese%20Society,-In%20Japan%2C%20strides&text=Additionally%2C%20issues%20such%20as%20the,full%20realization%20of%20gender%20equality.

https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/japan/japan-birth-rate-low-fertility-b2605535.html#

https://socialanxietycounseling.com/japanese-parenting-style/#:~:text=Japanese%20mothers%20tend%20to%20view,the%20mother's%2C%20and%20vice%20versa.

https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h02007/#:~:text=Child%2Drearing%20responsibilities%20typically%20fall,alone%20and%20detached%20from%20society.

I love Japan but it’s not a utopia.

It has its issues just like anywhere. Outside of the big cities communities are dying, the work culture is insane, it’s a highly hierarchical cilture and very rigid. Some of the same things that make it wonderful to visit, like the high value placed on never bothering anyone else and always putting the needs of others first, can be quite stifling for people who live there. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, which is why you have schools forcing children to dye their hair black to fit in.

I also hear that Japanese bureaucracy can be infuriating to deal with. Apparently it is very inflexible and sometimes pointlessly complex and antiquated. Japan is still hanging on to fax machines and hanko (name seal stamps).

I can't get past The Rape of Nanking.

Actually I lived in Japan for years and taught Japanese kids and their parents never hit them. I've never seen or heard of any Japanese parents who hit their kids so where do you get this from? 🙄

Yes...another fact is Japan's gender equality is 125th out of 146 nations according to NHK reported in June 2023

Generic words that society has deemed bad does not create badly behaved children

Having spent some time teaching and taking a young Japanese student under my wing somewhat this summer I would be really interested to visit the country. The flights are pricey though so it might have to wait until the DC have fledged.

It sounds like a fascinating place. Nowhere is without it's problems, but I would definitely like to visit.

Tourists are not expected to take part in this.
😉😁😁

Oh no not old people living a long time that will get up a lot of mumsnet noises.

Japan’s suicide rate is better than America.
I can see the issues with Japanese culture (same as any county) but it so wonderful to share public spaces with respectful, clean people. My daughter lost her phone 3 times and got it back each time. The public toilets, streets and transport are all immaculate. The food is amazing and even food from the seven eleven is very high quality.
There is a seedy underside to Toyko in some places if you look hard enough. Same as London, New York or literally anywhere else. I’d take the kids to any district in Toyko but I avoid Manchester town centre like the plague.

@unmemorableusername

My husband took 3 months paternity leave and still does night feeds now he's back at work. Next time he'll take 6.

That the uk has only 2 weeks paternity was a shock for me.

The needing permission for an abortion is terrible though.

Op, you stayed in central Tokyo? How did you travel to the other places you visited? Looking for tips on how to do a holiday there with teens

I loved Japan. I didn't expect it to feel so cosy - the beautiful beds and fluffy quilts, the onsen, the tiny noodle bars, little gardens everywhere, the whole aesthetic is unlike anything I've ever seen. Everyone was so hospitable, if we were looking at a map someone would help us, they entertained our toddler in restaurants... I would not want to live there because I know it would then be real life and the downside to a place so utterly itself is that it can be rigid and resistant to change - to me it's this dreamy beautiful delicious alternative place that is completely captivating.

Genuine question: may I ask how you discipline your children?

You missed out fixing university admission exams to prevent women getting into medical school… https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/08/tokyo-medical-school-admits-changing-results-to-exclude-women

I’d love to visit Japan but I find it really strange how it’s held up online as this perfect culture or as a tool to bash the UK etc. There’s good and bad (like anywhere).

I have no doubt it has amazing qualities, and some would prefer those, but I'd still choose to live here

And agree with @Salacia

OP that's fantastic. Did you organise it yourself or did you go on an organised package trip? Can you recommend it if that's the case?

But equally, you have chosen to highlight and rose tint all the good things about Japan, while brushing aside their flaws.

I mean you can say that for the uk too.

Not the OP but you are very welcome to join us on the Japan planning thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/holidays/5152514-japan-planning-thread?latest=1

The Japanese train network is brilliant for travelling around the country. It’s very easy to navigate and if you have an idea of which places you want to visit, someone will be able to advise on which regional rail passes might work for your trip.

There is so much that's great and to be admired about Japan, but the widespread open acceptance/condoning of sexualising underage girls is seriously nasty.

This. I was totally shocked. It's blatant, it's everywhere, at least in the (big) cities we visited. What is more, we saw so many girls and young women who dressed up in this weird 'sexy school girl' look, with doll's face make-up.

On the other hand, lots of 'normal' women dressed up in a very demure style - very plain, quite long skirts, any colour as long as it's navy ir black, and plain, unadorned white blouses, plus flat-heeled black shoes.

It's an odd country.

I’ve always wanted to visit Japan and I mentioned this before to my DM. She said my grandad would “turn in his grave” to hear me say that as he fought the Japanese in WWII. My DM said he was always haunted by it and refused to have anything Japanese made.

I was there about 15 years ago and absolutely loved it. Everything was so clean and the food was amazing!

To the same extent?

Japan always gets such weird treatment on Mumsnet. It's either an adorable Hello Kitty-esque utopia, or it's a scary place where people commit suicide all day long.

In reality, most aspects of Japan are like any other normal modern developed country. We actually have quite a lot of immigration nowadays, most mothers work outside the home, we have too many old people relative to taxpayers (but then, so does pretty every developed country).... You get the picture.

It would be great if people could update their priors a little bit from the 1990s. Japanese suicide rates are half what they were in the 90s and within the normal range for other developed countries. Floor space per person in Japanese homes is actually now slightly higher than in the UK - not because Japanese homes are big (they are not), but because they've increased in size over the last 20 years while the UK has Europe's smallest homes and floorspace per person is shrinking.

Suicide Rate by Country 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)

It's not a utopia, but I mostly have a good life here, and don't have any desire to come back to the UK (and for what it's worth, the UK has plenty of good and bad features too; I still enjoy my visits when I come back).

Actually, Japan has changed a lot - by Noah Smith (noahpinion.blog)

The above is by an American but is a reasonable and balanced take on modern Japan.