is it normal for secondary schools to use fear their induction method for year 7s

[Alevelquestions]

My child started secondary this Wednesday and the school has concentrated on emphasising all the ways they might get detentions. Kids have already been given detentions for not having the right colour pens, for not sitting straight or for forgetting parts of their PE kit. This is within three days of starting. My kid hasn’t had a detention but on Friday he told me he spent the whole day trying not to cry because he thought he’d have detention for forgetting his white board. The school prides itself on discipline but it seems to be at the expense of humanity and remembering these are quite young kids undergoing a major and unsettling transition. Is this the normal approach nowadays? It genuinely makes me so sad.

Secondary schools are much bigger environments and are dealing with much more complex issues amongst the student body and within the wider community.

Whilst some rules do seem like nitpicking, having solid rules and discipline isn’t just about churning out conformist robots, it can make it easier to identity and support those young people who are dealing with those complex issues and in need of additional child protection, mental health and SEN support.

As for the Covid factor…there is only so long we can continue using this to justify entire cohorts not coping with transitions. I totally understand it had a massive impact on many families (mine was one of them), but kids are generally resilient and we should be focussing on this, not harping back to something that happened four years ago that the majority of current Year 7 children will probably have little recollection of.

Not how my DS’s school operates thankfully. In year 7 they give the kids a couple of weeks to adjust to the rules and expectations. They only give out detentions for more serious and persistent poor behaviour not for forgetting pens! I made sure I checked I was happy with their disciplinary policy though before we applied as I didn’t want to send my DS to a school like your son’s. There is a school in our town that operates like this and it has a terrible reputation and poor results. I don’t want my son to spend his day feeling afraid of being punished for minor things.

Dd now in year 8 start to year 7 was like this. Actually, it started on the induction day before the summer holidays complete with shouting by the head of middle school. Just meant she spent the summer hols fretting about the school and me too to be honest! I think that level of fear instillation is wrong.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, but my new year 7 DD was definitely in year 2 when covid hit. It was just after half term of year 2. Sept 2020 i.e 4 years ago from now, she was going into year 3

I don't think she was hugely affected. I think older or younger children may have been more so.

What a fabulous idea. I wonder why schools haven’t thought of a home/ school agreement before 🙄

Absolutely. We had an accusatory email from a year 7 parent this week simply saying “DC was nervous in lesson and had tears in his eyes”, the child did not communicate to us in any way they were distressed.
The attitude that we should be mother, counsellor, educator and socialise an 11 year old in the first week is common. These are often parents who have not sought EHCPs or contacted us prior to starting.
There’s a general attitude of dropping them off and expecting us to “fix them” at school nowadays.
The same “draconian” rules and procedures we promote early on may make a yr7 a little anxious but also help protect them by ensuring school is calm and orderly. It’s high school…they’re not in Kansas anymore. In only 6 year time many will be legal adults.

I'm going to start saving for private education and also looking into home education beyond primary because this thread is devastating.

I went to a state school and remember we'd be threatened with detentions after the first few weeks but nothing like this.

Schools are not evidence based institutions. All the research shows you cannot learn in a state of fear. I'm going to do whatever I can now to ensure my babies don't go through this. I had no idea this was so common. I'm so sorry OP and everyone whose children have had a horrible first week.

Yes. My kids school is like this.
It's not an induction technique, that is what the school is like.
Having done 3 years of it, it has completely turned my son off. He went from attending 4 after school clubs a week and volunteering for all sorts of school roles to counting down the minutes until he gets out.
He sees so many of the rules as over zealous and ridiculous, and knows no matter how hard he tries he will end up told off for something, so he has just consciously uncoupled from it.
For context he is not a naughty kid, he usually gets 1 detention per school year, usually for an accumulation of negative points.
As a parent I want to be in a position where I support the school, but some of the negative behaviour points are so ridiculous, I can't support them.
The behaviour policy is held above all other policies and is regarded as the single most important thing, in the meantime the result and progress scores are going backwards year on year.

There is about to be a large scale study of the impact of covid on children, there are many theories that are being explored.

@Sciencestyle but surely you use your discretion? For example if you knew a child was having a tough time at home, or had been more focused in class all week than ever. Would you not not 'press the button?'for a minor indiscretion then.

This makes me so sad.

And so relieved our daughter hasn't had the same experience this week.

She has SEN (ADHD and anxiety) but is academically very gifted and was never in trouble at primary school. Being 'good' is very important to her and getting in trouble with teachers is hugely upsetting.

Precisely because of the local state schools' behaviour policies we were so scared of how she'd cope at one. Thankfully she was granted a scholarship and bursary based on her entry assessments and she's started at an all girls independent school this week.

They've all made mistakes/got lost/worn the wrong things. Other students have helped them out, teachers have leant them what they've needed and smiled when they've arrived at class late and said well done for finding their way.

She's under no illusion that soon she will need to be responsible and organised, but what on earth does punishing someone during such a new process achieve?

If my child feared school already then she'd be so stressed. Secure, happy, confident children give their best. It's such a huge shame that so many kids aren't given the chance to feel that.

Depends on the indiscretion, outside issues are not an excuse for poor behaviour and its right to call them on that - we don't have heavy sanctions for forgetting items, we all have a few trays of loan books, pencils, pens, rulers etc. detentions aren't used for that, rather for behaviour and uniform violations.

My DDs school was like this when she started in Year 7. We've since been through a painful journey of EBSA with her, largely based on fear of school. She has since been diagnosed with ASD which partially explains the situation but she also has friends who are quiet and well-behaved and absolutely hate school. However, DD2 has just started and they do seem to have eased up a bit so hopefully they've realised it is counter-productive.

Yes our school does this at the beginning of year 7 and, in general, it works. No one comes out traumatised by it at the end of school, they’re not beaten it’s a detention or a behaviour point. What normally happens is that things are less harsh as you go through the years because the children mature and understand that appropriate behaviour and equipment is required for them to be in a good learning environment. The standard of student behaviour in schools has reached rock bottom in recent years, so I fully support it.

ime schools are nurturing and good at the fluffy stuff too. It’s a balance most teachers are capable of striking.
A good year 6 teacher should begin the transition and many do. There maybe some rabbit in the headlights looks the first two weeks but the majority are fine and adjust well. By Christmas most are revelling in their independence and are having a great time. My last yr 7 cohort couldn’t wait to come back after the summer holidays. It’s not all doom and gloom.

All the research shows you cannot learn in a state of fear. I'm going to do whatever I can now to ensure my babies don't go through this.

Two lines which largely reflect a lot of the problem here.

'My babies'. Over protection.

Not thought for how I can make my children into independent adults who can cope with a multitude of different situations - some good but also some which are a lot more difficult - because sometimes life isn't good.

It's this attitude of protection rather than preparation that's leading to kids and parents having the shock in yr7.

A culture of infantilising children and not working to build resilience IS part of the problem here.

Kids need to learn that sometimes it IS appropriate to be told off. There's far too many parents who never say no to kids and never tell them off when it is appropriate and thats driving bad behaviour too.

Yes... I work in a secondary and I'm shocked at how immature this cohort is, wondering if its lockdown related. Interesting to hear its not just at our school!

OK. The 'European kids all walk to school alone from 6' isn't as true as it maybe once was. I'm in a European country famed for its emphasis on children's confidence and independence and it's absolutely the minority of my dd's classmates (year 3, which means ages 8-9 here) who walk alone - very socio-economically mixed student body So not a class thing either. . It's not considered neglectful to send them on their own but neither is it a must.

Where I am detentions are vanishingly rare for anyone, let alone new starters, and the schools don't seem to have descended into anarchy. Anxiety is a rubbish teacher (just saw Inside Out 2 with dd yesterday and found it a brilliant illustration of how anxiety taking over had unintended consequences) and so if the aim of these regimes of fear was really to help children learn self-organisation, then the method would be effective on the surface at best. Dd gets an 'order grade' each month, so there's an eye on their organisational skills without an immediate ton of bricks landing on them for every tiny infraction.

I don't think these 'schools as bootcamps' policies are about helping children to do well, though. They seem to stem from a conception of children as wild forces that must be squashed and contained. In the workplace, and approach like this would violate every 'dignity at work' policy going. What's so different about children that it's considered acceptable or even necessary to do it to them?

Yes - Astrea took over multiple secondary schools in Cambridgeshire and didn't improve a single one of them. It's nothing to do with children being unprepared for school and parents refusing to take responsibility.

As well as creating a horrible environment, they got poor Oftsted ratings, exam results went down, the MAT is underperforming for secondary education.

We live equal distance between two secondary schools but are only in catchment for one. Ten years ago they were two of the best schools in the county. One now has a punitive behaviour policy, rigid rules on how pupils enter the school and behave in classes, silent corridors. The other has a behaviour policy focused on personal responsibility, and strong relationships between teachers and pupils. Guess which one still has some of the best GCSE results in the county, and which has fallen halfway down the peformance tables?

Schools are setting up huge issues . At primary most schools are ‘rights respecting’ and teach children all their rights . At secondary they strip away all
their rights. My Ds was told one day he couldn’t wear his school shirt and tie with his jacket that unless he wore the jumper as well he would have a detention. It was a humid rainy day- he didn’t need a jumper he just needed the rain jacket and they pounced on him as he walked in. He told them that no, he won’t be controlled and it’s not anything that will affect his learning or behaviour he’s simply dressing appropriately for the weather and how his body feels as he would be too hot with a jumper as well. They gave him a detention, he didn’t go and we fully supported him in that

It was my first day as a t.a in a secondary on Tuesday and they do a no nonsense approach and it works well.

Normal, but horrendous.

@Flittingaboutagain

Read my contribution below before you start worrying.

I thought schools would have changed as they were like this when I was there. it was like primary they were helpful and supportive then Secondary you just got dumped there and were supposed to know all the rules without being told anything. at the end of the day these are still children facing a large school and a totally new style of schooling

This. It sounds as through good, enforced, discipline is a great idea.