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is it normal for secondary schools to use fear their induction method for year 7s

408 replies

Alevelquestions · 07/09/2024 23:54

My child started secondary this Wednesday and the school has concentrated on emphasising all the ways they might get detentions. Kids have already been given detentions for not having the right colour pens, for not sitting straight or for forgetting parts of their PE kit. This is within three days of starting. My kid hasn’t had a detention but on Friday he told me he spent the whole day trying not to cry because he thought he’d have detention for forgetting his white board. The school prides itself on discipline but it seems to be at the expense of humanity and remembering these are quite young kids undergoing a major and unsettling transition. Is this the normal approach nowadays? It genuinely makes me so sad.

OP posts:
benefitstaxcredithelp · 09/09/2024 18:22

XelaM · 08/09/2024 00:31

So many schools in the UK appear to be run like prisons. Really horrible.

I guess that's why I'm paying for private education.

I would argue that prisoners are treated more fairly than children in these schools with very draconian conditions and rules.

ASongOfRiceAndPeas · 09/09/2024 18:46

My child’s school is the same, from day 1. It’s a multi academy that gets excellent results but at the expense of kids mental health quite often.

user1472151176 · 09/09/2024 19:08

That's awful 🙁. I understand they need to make sure children understand what is expected of them but to be bringing children to tears and already handing out detentions doesn't sit right with me.
My dd also started Y7 this year and I'm thankful that it has so far been a positive an encouraging experience. I'm sorry I don't have any advice other than hang in there and speak to the school. I hope things get better.

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DaDaniela · 09/09/2024 19:13

I am a teacher, we are an Academy Trust, and we expect our students to behave, our behaviour policy is much better. We treat our students with kindness ( I have children myself ). We try and accommodate our students' needs, we have regular training sessions to help us.

I would write to the Head of the Year to make them aware, and see what they say.
Happy to advise further.

beautifuldaytosavelives · 09/09/2024 19:23

It’s ridiculous, but terrifyingly commonplace. There is such little ability to deal with wrongdoing at an individual level that meaningless punishments are meted out to pupils for whom a gentle reminder would do.

MagicFarawayTea · 09/09/2024 19:54

The school has to take a hard stance ASAP because in my experience kids are like velociraptors in Jurassic Park- they spend their time testing the teachers and boundaries for any weaknesses. Let little Johnny off for forgetting his Pencil case today, or being 5 minutes late; by half term they’ll be trying lots of other creative ideas to disrupt lessons.
This will all settle down in a couple of weeks- don’t worry!

Rhaenys · 09/09/2024 20:00

Our head of pastoral care was like this when I started in the early 00s. There was no need for it at all.

picklepotage · 09/09/2024 20:12

I know a teacher who was shortlisted The National Teacher of the Year. He said he wouldn’t smile at a year 7 in the first term.
It was about setting the expectations, boundaries etc. obviously this is all within reason and not to the extent of terrifying them , but teachers are dealing with a lot of children, from all sorts of backgrounds. They get to suss the children out quickly. Feels harsh but hey I remember being told to strip off and get in a communal bloody shower in my first week of secondary school - I’m still traumatised

KendraTheVampyrSlayer · 09/09/2024 20:22

RedToothBrush · 08/09/2024 01:31

I think part of the problem is to do with primary schools and parenting.

An 11 year old should be responsible and able enough to take responsibility for having the right equipment and books for their lessons.

The trouble is that parents have become so infantilising that they don't work on getting their child to that basic point before they get to high school and primary schools are frankly terrified of over bearing parents who complain about the slightest thing.

Look at the threads on walking to school and how many parents say their children can't get themselves up, dressed, do their own teeth and make themselves breakfast by age 9. And then say the school are right not to let 9 year olds walk home 300 ms by themselves when there's no road 'because rules and safeguarding'.

Look at the concerns about the sheer number of children going into reception who aren't yet potty trained. This number is growing and isn't related to SEN numbers.

Meanwhile it's normal for kids in Europe to be walking to school by themselves by age 6.

It means you get a bunch of kids and parents who have the shock of their lives when the expectations are laid out before them in this way. Yet the next family don't see the same issue in terms of this expectation.

The high school don't have the time nor money to be dealing with kids who don't have their basic stuff. It's disruptive to the class as a whole if you have a kid who say "miss I don't have a pen"

The OP goes on about this discipline being at "the expense of humanity". That says it all really. It's not an unreasonable expectation for 11 year olds to be able to manage their property. That's not against their humanity! It's expecting kids to be responsible in a way that's appropriate for the setting and situation.

How are these kids going to manage day to day in life when they are older? This is basic stuff. It's not an unreasonable level of responsibility.

One of the comments on this thread is precisely about how immature the current cohort of yr7 is. And the issue is getting worse imho.

Parents do not want their kids to develop life skills and abilities. They are facilitating it. And it's having a massive impact.

The schools then get blamed as the cause of poor mental health because of their 'draconian' regimes.

I'm not fully buying into this concept of it being Draconian to expect kids to have their stuff when they should. It's parents who have failed to work on things like teaching their kids to tie show laces or look after their school jumper without losing it whilst at primary.

If the kids can't cope with some of this stuff by this age, what's gone wrong. They aren't coping, but how is the school supposed to manage so many kids who haven't got the right kid for PE? Or have forgotten their calculator for maths? They can't get on with teaching in that situation. And it's unfair on the kids who have managed it. The school haven't been responsible for these kids prior to this point so how can they be responsible for this inability? If it's not the school who have been responsible for the past eleven years, where else must we look?

Having spent enough time helping out in DSs primary and hearing the demands of some of the parents Im not surprised. One parent said they didn't think a certain book was appropriate because it was scaring their child in yr2. It was a factual book about the weather which was completely age appropriate. Another said they didn't think they should be learning about the great fire of London as it was too serious and adult. There a whole pile more examples that have really made me roll my eyes and think wtaf.

I dunno. I am not sure what else schools are supposed to do. If they took a much softer line, then increased then increased the expectation over the first half term parents would still complain about it being too harsh and unfair that they'd done that.

There are far too many parents that don't expect their kids to do things like help out at home or learn to do their own washing by the time they are 16. It's part of the same problem.

What's gone wrong?

Well they spent around 2-3 years of their primary school education being isolated from their peers and getting educated online. How can you not see how that would not have a detrimental effect on children and their emotional maturity levels?

Jack80 · 09/09/2024 20:41

Some schools are over the top with detentions. I'm not sure why high schools are getting more like prisons asking can you take your blazer off, getting reprimanded for not having the right equipment. This wouldn't happen in the workplace if you forgot your pen. What type of adult will they make for the future to be feared of daft things.

ShoopShoopShoopShoop · 09/09/2024 20:45

Jack80 · 09/09/2024 20:41

Some schools are over the top with detentions. I'm not sure why high schools are getting more like prisons asking can you take your blazer off, getting reprimanded for not having the right equipment. This wouldn't happen in the workplace if you forgot your pen. What type of adult will they make for the future to be feared of daft things.

Well, we had to ask permission to take blazers off in the mid 90s. But no harsh detention for forgetting a ken it whatever.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2024 20:47

KendraTheVampyrSlayer · 09/09/2024 20:22

What's gone wrong?

Well they spent around 2-3 years of their primary school education being isolated from their peers and getting educated online. How can you not see how that would not have a detrimental effect on children and their emotional maturity levels?

But this was happening before COVID and I suspect will continue after because it's about parenting not COVID...

FluffyBenji23 · 09/09/2024 21:05

There were very few detentions in year seven when I started. There didn't need to be as we all respected the teachers, unfortunately things have changed and teachers now need to impose discipline from day one. I have several friends, good teachers all, who gave up the profession due to dreadful behaviour issues where they taught.

Kjpt140v · 09/09/2024 21:07

JanglyBeads · 08/09/2024 00:04

Is it part of a multi academy trust? Would you like to say which one if so?

I'm interested in knowing why you asked if it was a multi-academy.

LilySLE · 09/09/2024 21:23

planAplanB · 08/09/2024 00:49

Yes... because if lockdown. They were year 4 at the time. They totally regressed emotionally.

This year’s Year 7 cohort missed part of Year 2 and part of Year 3 due to lockdown. Not year 4.

sunhasgotthis · 09/09/2024 21:26

'2-3 years isolated from peers'

Seriously? Do you actually believe what you've written? Forgive me if you were talking about kids that have had to deregister because school is too risky for them now health wise.

Clearinguptheclutter · 09/09/2024 21:26

Mine started y7 last week. I think expectations have been made clear but not sure anyone has actually got into trouble yet (my son was mildly panicked to have forgotten a certain book the other day and all turned out well)

actually one boy has been given a detention but he swore at the teacher twice so fair play

NeedaBreakSoon · 09/09/2024 21:40

FluffyBenji23 · 09/09/2024 21:05

There were very few detentions in year seven when I started. There didn't need to be as we all respected the teachers, unfortunately things have changed and teachers now need to impose discipline from day one. I have several friends, good teachers all, who gave up the profession due to dreadful behaviour issues where they taught.

And parents used to support the school and the teachers instead of looking for any excuse to wade in and bleat about school rules causing mental health issues for their pampered little brats

celticprincess · 09/09/2024 22:20

My DD is y11. She’s sick of hearing now that too many lates, detentions or non homework returning will end in prom tickets being withdrawn for individuals. But if they’re told by October half term they’ve too many lates etc that they’ve lost their prom ticket, then what motivation do they have for the rest of the year??

There are also parents in the fb groups set up for parents for both year groups I have kids in that detentions are given out too frequently for stupid things. However neither of my kids have received a detention. Ones been there a year and the other is into their 5th year.

I’m also a teacher and can see that some schools are trying to come down hard at the start of the year so that it will prevent kids long term misbehaving but for those kids getting all the many detentions it doesn’t really seem to be a preventative method. Those are the kids that just never toe the line. And then the well behaved kids just spend their time with massive anxiety worrying about the threat if they ever did do something wrong.

Both my kids seem to respond better to positive behaviour approaches rather than the constant threats of negative consequences. But I’ m a special ed teacher and would struggle in mainstream secondary. Managed well enough on primary. But the stories my kids tell my when they come home some days makes me glad secondary wasn’t an option I picked.

BooBooDoodle · 09/09/2024 22:50

My son’s school is the same. Get caught without the right colour pen and it’s an automatic 10 minute detention after school. They get behaviour points too but some staff hand them out like sweets. Still waiting for a reply off my sons IT teacher who made his life hell last year. Evident there was a problem and it was stressing my son out. My son is a high achiever and has a high number of achievement points. This teacher was giving behaviour points every lesson. I demanded to know why and have a chat in order to see what was happening. The behaviour appoints soon stopped once I questioned it.

Completelydonechick · 09/09/2024 23:11

And this is why I left the insanity of the state system!

PinkMangoSorbet · 09/09/2024 23:53

This sounds like the Ark Schools Academy Trust. Wouldn't trust them with a hamster. Though sadly it seems this kind of nonsense is pretty common.

Sickdissapointed · 10/09/2024 00:05

Our 2 main secondary schools are part of the same trust. Ridiculous levels of rules and regulations. Detention is metered out at any given opportunity. Children can’t be ruled by fear. I just hope when my daughter attends in four years things have calmed down a lot. A number of parents are so unhappy they are seriously discussing home school option.

Superhansrantowindsor · 10/09/2024 08:08

‘I demanded to know why’ - couldn’t you just ask?

NeedaBreakSoon · 10/09/2024 08:12

Superhansrantowindsor · 10/09/2024 08:08

‘I demanded to know why’ - couldn’t you just ask?

Exactly! No wonder so many teachers are disillusioned and leaving the profession when parents go in shouting the odds instead of supporting them.