is it normal for secondary schools to use fear their induction method for year 7s

[Alevelquestions]

My child started secondary this Wednesday and the school has concentrated on emphasising all the ways they might get detentions. Kids have already been given detentions for not having the right colour pens, for not sitting straight or for forgetting parts of their PE kit. This is within three days of starting. My kid hasn’t had a detention but on Friday he told me he spent the whole day trying not to cry because he thought he’d have detention for forgetting his white board. The school prides itself on discipline but it seems to be at the expense of humanity and remembering these are quite young kids undergoing a major and unsettling transition. Is this the normal approach nowadays? It genuinely makes me so sad.

All those saying choose another school a) in a lot of areas there is no other choice and b) MATs have created cartels in some areas so all schools are under the same MAT and thus the same policies.

MATs are the worst thing to happen since Thatcher was prime minister to schools. But the genie is well out of the bottle and sadly nothing will change with them.

I have 1 child who did well at a strict school and my youngest will not cope with that environment and I do worry about her future when she gets to secondary, coupled with dyslexia I know it will be a very rocky road.

Absolutely! They are mistaken discipline with abuse

So easy to say 'you chose this school' but many, many families do not have a choice of schools!
Lots of towns have one secondary school. Even cities with lots of schools might have tight catchment areas.
Often the choice is - zero tolerance academy or home education.
Not every family is in a position to home educate.

It's an interesting point. If you at home punished your child for every single mistake they ever made, that would constitute emotional abuse surely?

It just becomes pointless background noise doesn't it, and parents either don't care about detentions or actively criticise the school.

My teen is objectively a 'good kid' - positive feedback at parents evening, predicted good grades, lots of merits and cards home about great behaviour, has never once been rude to a teacher, disrupted a class, damaged school property, fought with another student.

He's had loads of detentions and even a few isolations though!

In Year 7 he was initially really upset about behaviour points and detentions (all for petty nonsense) so we as parents told him to ignore it, not worry, all meaningless, just keep your head down. And he knows now that if the detention is really unfair I will call the school, kick up a fuss and refuse to let him do it.
We started school supporting them, and now we support our child against them basically - we've had to pick a side.

Punishments have all been for lateness, incorrect uniform, home work. Automatic punishment for minor mistakes with no rudeness or back chat involved.
Or detentions unfairly given when the school has made a mistake (no punishment for them though??)

There are some horror stories on here but this is not my experience. And remember a parent only has their child’s version of events of misdemeanours at school.

Mistakes such as forgotten equipment should not be punished with a detention. If you turn up without a pencil case you’d get an unmet expectation in ours. You would know in form after equipment checks that you have to keep your nose clean that day to avoid another and a detention.

Behaviour such as disrespecting others and no effort should be challenged every time.

Teachers are not enforcing rules to be cruel. Everyone I know wants each child to achieve their full potential. Dealing with constant low level disruption, toilet breaks, lateness, lending equipment/kit can shave off hours of teaching time a week which is really unfair to the responsible pupils.

I'm so glad we have middle schools!

DS's high school is strict on time, uniform, equipment, PE kit etc, but they only start from Y9. Y6-8 are middle school, which is as nurturing as a primary school, but allows you to grow independence. Fantastic system.

Choices are often very limited.

op I agree, my elder son was quite angst ridden at the idea of detention and embarassed at being tearful in front of friends. The children it's actually aimed at won't give a damn and their parents won't either.

My sons' teachers often thanked me for raising polite, considerate children as if that was unusual.

Not all schools are like this OP. The school I work in isn’t, it’s an excellent school with high standards and brilliant results, but with year 7 there is some leiniency. For example, this week I’ve had pupils forget various things and I haven’t given a detention or told them off. But I did say that if they continued to forget things they would be given a detention in the future and emphasised the importance of being organised and packing their bag the night before school.

One of the more successful school near me has no uniform and teachers are addressed by their Christian name. There is a skate park and other activities for break.

Kids seem happy there and achieve well.

Faith schools are notoriously oversubscribed , our local has 10 secular places in a year group of 360, many proactive parents attend church for a few years with the sole aim of qualifying for a coveted place.

Whilst people may reject religion and faith, there are benefits to being part of a faith community.

Yep DC school is like this too.

To be fair they haven't actually handed any detentions out (to my DC's knowledge. I've asked him in passing and Y7 all did a full week last week) but I think they've gone in strict from the start. The school has over a 1000 students (all boys) and a sixth form so I get the need to show "zero tolerance" from the get go.

Luckily my DC thrives on rules, routines and still needs to be micromanaged with the basics so the environment suits him. I can't imagine sending a more "gentile" or "free range" child to such a school though.

It's not mild discipline imo. Detentions are given for tiny infractions of the rules
..ie tie too short/long. At my DC's school they had isolation...so if a pupil missed a detention they had to spend an entire day sitting in silence in a room. Now, if a parent punished their child in that fashion at home and then told their teacher, I'm pretty sure a safe guarding referral would be made?

I don’t think some parents on this thread realise that the vast majority of kids get less than 10 behaviour points a year and the majority never do a detention. Most kids turn up on time, with equipment and do the work including homework, which they hand in on time. Allowances are always made for children with SEN at my school.

Rules need to be in line with laws in the real world . We wouldn’t stand for being told what we can wear or when we can go to the toilet!!!! They are focusing on the wrong areas just to have control. The wrong type of control just causes resentment because there’s no clear reason or benefit for the ridiculous rules. Rules should be about things that actually matter so that children clearly understand the need for them otherwise its just constantly going to be a flash point when adults are on power trips trying to control children with rules about things that really don’t matter !

My kids secondary school doesn't give detentions for year 7s for the first month.

After that if a child doesn't have any of the right equipment like red pen, green pen, blue pen, highlighter. reading book, eraser, etc, it's an automatic detention.

One of my kids didn't have a green pen with them once towards the end of year 10, first time ever. They actually had 2 in their pencil case for the first two lessons so think someone must have taken them. Even after almost 4 years of always having equipment and being a model pupil, there was no leeway from this teacher and she gave my child a detention. This is despite teachers fairly often forgetting class books and other things, not marking tests correctly. forgetting they have set homework etc. They expect absolute perfection from children which I feel is damaging but are often far from perfect themselves.

Anyone can forget something occasionally, we're not robots.

Anyway, my child was upset and their form teacher stepped in to get the detention removed. If they hadn't, then I would have. If my child didn't have equipment often or was not doing homework or was misbehaving, then I would agree with detentions, but I can't stress how much of a rule follower they are. Not having 1 pen in 4 years while being otherwise a model pupil should not call for a detention. My child didn't need a deterrent.

I'll be glad to see the back of the school when my youngest finishes this year. These rules with zero leeway make some kids terrified and anxious, constantly checking things, worrying and striving to be perfect, it's not healthy. Then seeing many of the teachers be fairly poor at the things the red kids get detentions for very frustrating.

Yes, we are oversubscribed five-fold. Over 1200 applications for 250 places.

Maybe at your school. Not at my kid's school.

It is galling when you know they’ve been playing football all break time then ask 5 mins into a lesson. Then get 10 mins of muttering “I’ll wee myself all over the floor” for laughs and a lecture on human rights. It’s always the same ones who abuse it.
Teachers allow the ones you can tell are genuinely caught out but it’s rare.
If you can’t hold it for 90 mins we are doing them no favours in their physical development by pandering to it every lesson.

I do wonder how much the current trend is really schools becoming stricter or a wider gap between strictness in school and strictness at home / primary schools.

Primary schools don't do any punishment. Much less so than when I was in school. Just talking through actions without much in the way of consequences. This works to a certain extent, until the kids realise there is a lack of consequences then it becomes really problematic often with the other kids becoming perpetual victims because the school does nothing to resolve the problem. They can kick, abuse, harm etc both staff and other pupils. They don't get suspended or moved to alternative better suited facilities which more support. When there is an issue, parents don't want to hear it and decide to get confrontational and argue the toss with the school and teachers are hamstrung and often end up caving after being bullied themselves. They don't want to hear that Little Johnny is a mouth little troublemaker who needs parents to have a word. Little Johnny runs riot at home with no responsibilities and few boundaries.

Then they get to High School and its the total opposite. The schools won't take the nonsense from the parents or the kids anymore.

The local high school is regarded as really strict. But I'm not sure its really anymore strict than school was when I was a child. Its just relative expectations elsewhere have shifted elsewhere.

There are two different issues. Some parents might not provide discipline at home, or want to accept that their child has been badly behaved.

At the same time, some schools have become far more strict, to the detriment of many pupils. At my sons' school, a disproportionate amount of detentions and suspensions involve children with SEN, or from disadvantaged backgrounds. The school was told by Ofsted to reduce suspensions so instead have moved to more internal suspensions which are less visible but still exclude these kids from education.

At the school I went to in the 90s, you would never have got a detention for wearing the wrong colour socks, or for turning around during a lesson. I didn't have to line up in the playground for uniform check every morning. When I didn't wear the right uniform my head of year would reason with me, and because I respected him I listened and complied.

It is FAR stricter today - in the last 4 years since they became part of a MAT to be precise, during which time GCSE results have fallen considerably. At what point do we admit it's not working in some schools?

EXACTLY this at my kids grammar school. I HATE IT. My two are "rule keepers". I can see that the direct impact is that they BOTH experience school as a high stress and anxious place.

Sounds exactly like my child's school. Rules there have gotten a lot stricter recently. Last year especially and more so this year. 5 minutes late half hour detention. Lots of well do more rewards to if they uphold out core values but I doubt it.