is it normal for secondary schools to use fear their induction method for year 7s

[Alevelquestions]

My child started secondary this Wednesday and the school has concentrated on emphasising all the ways they might get detentions. Kids have already been given detentions for not having the right colour pens, for not sitting straight or for forgetting parts of their PE kit. This is within three days of starting. My kid hasn’t had a detention but on Friday he told me he spent the whole day trying not to cry because he thought he’d have detention for forgetting his white board. The school prides itself on discipline but it seems to be at the expense of humanity and remembering these are quite young kids undergoing a major and unsettling transition. Is this the normal approach nowadays? It genuinely makes me so sad.

Are they private?

That Michaela school is a good example of rules, consistency and parents having to fit in with the school ethos and they are a good example of a performing school aren’t they?
Good standards don’t just happen.

In 25 years of teaching I have never heard of a school applying this method of ‘investigation’.
Surely this is an exception and not at all like the regular rules that this thread is discussing.

No. Not private. There's more than one way to be a successful school.

Ok I’ll take your word for it.

However, in most cases, the teaching staff will have to work a lot harder and apply the rules consistently in order to get those types of results.

The school I taught in thankfully wasn't like this and we avoided the school that was locally.

Yes they often get good results (not sure it makes as much difference now most schools in the area are like it now) but theirs a trail of kids with SEND that are falling out the system, another trail of kids who can't cope who perhaps have undiagnosed send that would have coped in a less draconian school, EBSR is higher than ever...

It might get short term results but long term breakdown of relationships isn't worth it.

I didn't say a teacher can't tell a child off at all!!! But absolutely roaring at them on their first day is a joke and stood behind another child who wasn't involved. My sons seat mean he had his back to the teacher the 2 boys opposite were facing him on a square work space and misbehaving.

No he can't cope and yes it did upset him. A child on the asd pathway and who 4 months ago didn't want to be alive any more and has been getting treatment who has been put in a mainstream school and the teacher chose to do that to 11 year old children 3 hours after one of the biggest days of their life so far.

Must be lovely to have a child who hasn't wanted to end their own life and fits in just perfectly to mainstream school and typical life but I wouldn't know so maybe you can tell me how pathetic my son is or that I am or maybe you can keep your shit remarks to yourself.

I didn't say I expected the teacher to do anything else there's raising your voice and there's absolutely roaring at 11 year old children loud enough to cause other staff to come into the class room because it was that loud and with no pre warning no asking them to stop what they were doing. I didn't say he shouldn't do it I'd do the same but on their first day I'd expect a bit more consideration for what they are going through. If I didn't agree with schools then I'd be home schooling!! Alls I said is my child couldn't cope.
Scared cos he'd been lost, kids had took him the wrong way, he was late for form, then that on his first day of school after leaving my side for the first time in 4 months and getting on a bus by himself he found it difficult to cope and came home and exploded yes. Expecting someone with crippling anxiety and depression not to get upset at that is weird.
Don't remember saying the teacher upset him as a single incident, the whole class was punished for these few children imagine thinking you're getting detention and don't know how you're getting home from school if that happens because you'll miss the school bus. Rationally he knows what to do if he gets detention but his little neuro divergent brain is a rule follower. 🖕🖕🖕🖕

I think this is dreadful- it’s a stressful transition anyway and schools should be helping students to settle in.I’m a teacher and my school is nothing like this. My iwnDC, now grown, wouldn’t have handled this at all. I don’t agree with detentions for little things like pens and how children sit. More like a prison than a school.

You will. Because not going to out myself but many of the top state schools aren't like that and don't have silent corridors. There isn't one way to be a great school.

My fear is that some people train in these schools and become evangelical about it and genuinely think it's the One True Way.

Perhaps like one or two posters on this thread.

Its a shame. Id hate to teach in a fear-based school. And feel like the rich/poor divide will just get bigger.

I hope it is an exception - but within the current system it's still acceptable.

Separately, I wonder how effective punitive behaviour policies are when they rely on extrinsic rather than intrinsic motivation.

Surely we want kids to behave well for the right reasons, and according to their personal values and sense of community. Instead they make decisions on behaviour to avoid punishment or get rewards.

We also have a zero communication with parents on complaints around discipline, we will happily help the parents to enable the children to meet our standards, but no one, up to the head, will even reply to a complaint to the effect of "my child didn't deserve.." etc.
Wow, a haven for those who seek to abuse. I'm all for discipline but surely complaints should be on a case by case basis. For example if a teacher manhandles or regularly humiliates students. Of course according to Mumsnet this never happens and is teacher bashing; meantime in RL...

👏to your ds.

controlling how many layers of uniform students wear is absurd.

"Wow, a haven for those who seek to abuse. I'm all for discipline but surely complaints should be on a case by case basis."

I think the pp means complaints about the discipline policy e.g attempting to get detentions rescinded etc.

Manhandling children is not part of any school discipline policy. Worst case scenario restrain techniques may be used during fights etc and even then sometimes only by trained staff.

Well actually...

But do carry on screaming. I'm sure that will help everyone concerned.

In my kids school I would say yes, its about expectation setting but they also recognised that its a new environment and would forgive minor rule-breaking during a settling in period. Seems like a good balance. I have heard of schools with no slack from day 1 though.

Yes totally normal in our local schools, all of which belong to the same academy trust so no option to choose elsewhere.

People wonder why teens are so anxious all the time, her is the start of the problem.

My DS (ADHD & ASD) said regularly after a few months that he might as well play up and be sent to isolation because no matter how hard he tries he can not meet these standards, he can’t help rocking on his chair, losing his last green pen, chewing his pencil all whilst sitting and trying to listen. If he’s in isolation, no one checks his equipment, no one cares if he’s chewing his pen or swinging on his chair.

My DD (very likely ASD but not diagnosed as masks too well at school), she is constantly anxious about forgetting something or getting a detention. She rang me sobbing on Friday morning because she had left her planner on her bed.

Both of these children enjoyed primary school, went without issue. My DD had days of begging me not to take her last year and it breaks my head how much these schools have broken both my children in different ways.

Destroyed?

Jesus Christ

@Alevelquestions in my experience the first two weeks were actually the worst, they are ‘setting their expectations’. They also find the kids during this time struggle for whatever reason and continue to be on them constantly, the kids that manage to stay below the radar for this time then seem to get off more lightly going forward. They are the ones that are ‘leant’ a pen for today or told to just get one for tomorrow etc. Just awful.

Yes, actually. There are countless stories of anxious neurodiverse students who have ended up school refusing/home educated because reasonable adjustments to these pointless rules have not been made. A very talented teacher ended up having to leave her role to deal with the fall out of all this for he child.
If you have never suffered from clinical anxiety you are probably fortunately unaware of just how debilitating being in a constant state of high alert is all day.

I've read a lot of Naomi Fisher's posts and she speaks a lot of sense. Unfortunately schools aren't run in a way that would make more sense for a lot of children.

I know the school my DD goes to isn't right for her in any way shape or form but there is no other choice. The only other state school nearby is full and I can't afford for her to go to the local private school that offers the much smaller classes and nurturing environment she'd thrive in. It's horrible to watch your child crumple. She thinks she's a failure (and she's not expected to achieve many GCSE passes) but if she'd had a less stressful, confrontational environment she'd have done much much better.

The current state of affairs with secondary education, multi academy trusts and these Victorian values and ethics are a fucking disgrace. The culture is one of threat and fear. Good kids who did well in primary are in a state of perpetual anxiety, how can they possibly open their minds to be academically curious and learn to the best of their potential? Individuality is crushed at every opportunity.

Everybody must look the same, learn the same way, think the same. Is this obsession with hair colour, nail colour, shoe colour, jewellery, make up etc, improving outcomes for our kids? Is it fuck. The twisted logic of removing a child from their learning because they've still got a barely visible henna tattoo on their arm from their holiday is an absolute joke, you could not make it up. The schools bang on about how important learning time is, and yet they send children out of lessons constantly for the most trivial of things.

Kids unfortunate enough not to be neurotypical are marginalised from their school community, with much more of their education taking place off site. They have no sense of belonging. Exclusions are at ridiculous levels. It's an absolute shit show across the whole country and I frankly cannot wait for my kids to be out of it.

I have exactly the same with my ASD (awaiting ADHD diagnosis) child. Shes so stressed at school she's learning little to nothing.

I paid for an English tutor last term and she got a grade 5 in her recent mock. The majority of her other subjects she's tracking at grade 2-3. I know she's capable of so much more but she's just on high alert all the time. She often comes home and is sound asleep by 6pm and doesn't wake until I call her for breakfast the next day to do it all again. She finds school completely exhausting. It doesn't need to be.

This is why I hate the constant nagging! Water off a duck's back to those that need it and just plain awful for those that don't who end up feeling that nothing they do is good enough.

@GrammarTeacher oh I'm aware of how debilitating clinical anxiety is. I'm also ND myself. But saying a nearly term will be 'destroyed' by following some rules that all the kids have to follow is OTT. If he follows the rules, then there's no issue.

Except there is! It's the one who follow the rules that worry the most and are really really anxious about getting anything wrong.