The recurrent discussion about bum scrunch leggings

[SockSensation]

Or whatever they're called.

To me it's obvious they're designed to accentuate a woman's rear end, for the benefit/attraction of men.

But that's OK, why do women pretend they never do anything to try an attract a man, when biology/history shows that's pretty much why we're on the planet and occupies an awful lot of time, from puberty onwards.(and vice versa)?

If women want some sexual attention they're perfectly free to behave in whatever way they believe will get it. Why do those who do it deny it and women who see it judge it?

Others might do it differently, in ways they consider less obvious, but it's there.

Why is it a bad thing?

I’m not sure, but if they do, I’m still dressing for other women and not for men!

I suspect men are more likely than women to appreciate women looking like slappers, because women generally judge that very heavily. Beyond that I’m not sure what differences there might be?

*The problem is you automatically thinking that a woman has chosen to wear those leggings to accentuate her bum for the benefit of man.

Is there no possibility she had worn them because her accentuated bum has given her confidence because it looks good?*

These are basically the same thing. In both scenarios, the woman feels 'confidence' because she perceives herself as performing well as a sexualised object. Why else would she think it 'looks good' to draw attention to parts of her anatomy that are sexualised? Why is her 'confidence' being drawn from the idea that others, looking at her, would be pleased ('it looks good' externalised)? If external appearance can give you confidence, it is only by reference to the (possibly imagined) approval of others.

I get what I think is your point - that people who mock/pretend not to understand the attraction of those leggings have probably worn equally odd things in their time because they thought they looked good/made them look attractive. Fair enough. Most people probably have.

but this is worded really badly:
"But that's OK, why do women pretend they never do anything to try an attract a man, when biology/history shows that's pretty much why we're on the planet and occupies an awful lot of time, from puberty onwards.(and vice versa)?"

While there may be an overall biological imperative for humans as a species to produce, as INDIVIDUALS some of us really, honestly, truly, neither desire a man's sexual attention nor to reproduce. It's not my reason for living and neither does it occupy an awful lot of my time. Really.

I used to work in an all female workplace with kids.

Every day I would dress nice, have my hair dyed and styled, wear make up, tan, painted nails and perfume.

There were absolutely no men to try and impress but I still made myself up because it made me feel good.

We don’t all do things for men’s benefit.

Reminds me of a baboon attracting a mate. I’m sure there must be a correlation there somewhere

It's so tiresome when people keep insisting that we women are always trying to attract a man. We just don't realise it.

It's very patronising.

These are basically the same thing. In both scenarios, the woman feels 'confidence' because she perceives herself as performing well as a sexualised object.

Please stop referring to woman as sexualised objects. Please stop insisting women as rating themselves on well they perform as sexualised objects. It's pretty fucking grim and disrespectful.

Why else would she think it 'looks good' to draw attention to parts of her anatomy that are sexualised?

Men and porn have sexualised womens bodies to the point now where women are being accused of lying when they say they aren't dressing for sexual attention. If she gets unwanted sexual attention, it's her fault for dressing a certain way. Another point where women just can't get it right.

Why is her 'confidence' being drawn from the idea that others, looking at her, would be pleased ('it looks good' externalised)? If external appearance can give you confidence, it is only by reference to the (possibly imagined) approval of others

I wore a dress, did my hair and went out with my friends. One of them said I looked amazing. I was happy with that because it was said kindness and love and really boosted my confidence. Nothing sexual about it.

I work a v neck top and jeans another time and was waiting to be served at the bar, a bloke stood next to me kept staring at my chest and called me a frigid bitch when I turned away so he couldn't see. He then went and sat back with his wife after getting his drinks.

So no, your "theory" that women cannot help but dress for the male gaze doesn't wash with me.

I get zero confidence from the approval of men because it makes me feel uncomfortable that they are so confident to think their unwanted opinion on how I choose to dress needs to be heard.

Why do women have to be absolutely 100% dressing for men and when they say they aren't why are they shushed up and told they 100% absolutely are?

It's like no one gives a shit what women say or think because men and male apologists always know better.

Why do things like painted nails, perfume, certain clothes make you 'feel good' ? Past the 'feel' but why? What about it? Not judging - just curious.

Are they even comfortable? I think they look ridiculous on anyone, no matter how great their backside might be. I wouldn't be seen dead in them. I do wear sports leggings but only when I'm actually actively doing the sport they go with.

Otherwise I wear dresses or jeans when cold. If a man is going to notice me it can be for my personality and who I am. I'm not going to do a thing to make myself physically alluring for them.

Well said. I find this thread quite rapey actually.

Nearly everything about women's bodies have been sexualised. Breasts (which are actually got feeding a baby ffs), arse, legs, lips, eyelashes.

By ops logic anything we do do accentuate any part of us. From lipstick to tight trousers and we are trying to attract sexual attention from a man. Therefore we are asking for it.

Honestly, is this 2024?

Where do lesbians fit into all of this I wonder?

I don't dress to attract a man, but on the days I can be arsed I do like to wear clothes that flatter my body and that I feel good in.

The thing is, "flatter my body" is a euphemism for "make my figure look stereotypically feminine and attractive". If I wear something that really highlights my wobbly belly or my cellulite, I wouldn't say I'm dressing in a flattering way or that i feel good in that outfit. If I wear something that makes my figure look a little more hourglass, then I would. And it happens that an hourglass figure is sexually appealing from an evolutionary perspective.

Ditto having a skincare routine to try and keep my skin smooth and clear, wearing mascara to look a little more wide-eyed etc... I do it for my own confidence boost when I look in the mirror, not because I'm actively trying to attract a man. But the only reason it gives me a confidence boost is because I've received the message for 39 years that youth is attractive (implied: to men).

I think most women dress according to their own choices, but choices are never made in a vacuum and the relentless messaging from society about what is and isn't flattering or attractive is difficult to remove from the equation.

Because they like them.

Why do people like anything? People wear things that they like. Same as with absolutely anything.

I thinkBranstonPickle answer is the same as mine would be.
These choices aren't made in a vacuum but neither are we always aware of why we value these things. I don't think most women are trying to attract men (usually the opposite) but we are aware of the norms and codes of our society and for most people fitting into these norms gives pleasure and to some degree kudos and acceptance or validation. All good things to feel on the receiving end of.

It is possible to wear them because they are comfortable. As it is, I've heard far more about what women think of the women who wear the things (with a side of how disgustingly fat other women are, as we always get on here) than has ever been heard in a gym setting from men - they largely seem more concerned about how many reps you've got left on your set than what sociological and developmental theory is being bandied around on Mumsnet to create the discourse that women who wear them are mere animals on heat.

Don’t lesbians wear them ?

Women who are better looking will attract more men and what looks attractive is influenced by men but it’s about competing against other women rather than attracting men.

It’s the same as fashion or clothes- heterosexual men rarely have an opinion but women want approval or envy from other women. Most heterosexual men measure a woman’s outfit by how much flesh is showing and how tight it is rather than if it’s trendy.

I agree with this tbh.
Sure, women dress for themselves too, and also for other women.
I just can’t quite imagine thinking: “Great, this leggings are really showing the outlines of my bum, my friend will love it!”
I can imagine thinking that wearing a new dress or a cool pair of jeans. Not scrunch bum leggings though 🤷‍♀️

I dress only for myself. I would never be seen in those leggings, as they look hideous.

Well if your friend has put a lot of work in at the gym to get their bum you would be admiring.

And also some people just like the look of the leggings themselves, the same as someone likes the look of a “cool pair of jeans”.

No, I can't imagine thinking "I love the way the fabric is shoved up my friends bum crack, looks great "

And me.

Also you could level the same question at anything - why do we wear push up bras? Why do we wear control knickers under fitted dresses? Why do we wear low cut tops? Why do we wear make up? Have our hair done?!

I do all of this to make myself feel good and confident! Nothing to do with other people!

Idk, maybe if I had a friend who was working specifically on the shape of their bum. Don’t know anyone like this atm though, so I might admire someone’s outfit or the overall appearance, not specifically the bum though.
Leggings can look good, I agree with that, just not the scrunchie bit imo.

See, I absolutely can imagine seeing a friend and saying “Mate, your bum looks incredible” if their bum looked incredible, regardless of what kind of leggings they were wearing. One of my friends invariably tells me I’ve got a cracking pair of boobs, on the rare occasions that I wear something low-cut.

Also, in reality the fabric isn’t actually meant to go up your bum crack; it’s more of an optical illusion created by the seams and the slight ruching at the top. It’s just the bum version of a push up bra really.

Ok so I have my nails done.

I spend a lot of time typing and I like looking down at a splash of colour, pattern and pretty!

Didn't we have bum cracks more or less on show on the early naughtiest with the ultra low rise jeans?

This is a typical 'I don't like what some people choose but I can't just say that so I present it as a philiosphical debate to make me feel better about myself' post.

Everyone's taste is different which on balance is probably fortunate. Some people like to emphasis their sexuality to members of their preferred gender. Some people prefer comfort. Some people like to present themselves in a particular way to suggest they belong to some group they perceive to be 'better' than others. Some people dress to try and hide something they perceive to be flawed about themselves. Some people have a limited budget for clothing. Society and history has had an influence on ALL these things.

And in this case maybe someone just looked in the mirror and thought 'gosh my bum looks good in these' and went off with bit of a skip in their step that day.

If it doesn't hurt anyone, it isn't anyone else's business. What does hurt people, and is wrong, is making judgements that seek to 'other' or sneer at someone on the basis of something as superficial as design choices.