London - A bit of perspective

[Slowhorses1]

I grew up in London, have lived here all my life and always loved it. However, the last year I haven't felt as safe. This summer was the first time I've ever felt edgy going into town with my kids. Everything just feels a bit grimmer than it ever has before.

That said, I don't know if its just me. My daughter has been suffering a bit from anxiety so I don[t know if its just rubbed off a bit on me.

I know some people have always found London grim, so this is directed more to people who have previously / still enjoyed it and to see if anyone has noticed this change.

When you say going in to town do you mean in to central London? What area of London do you live in? I’ve recently moved out of London for a number of reasons but I must say I didn’t feel any less safe. I know some people have said that London feels more edgy to them now they have children. I was based in Walthamstow & because it’s an area on the up if anything it seemed to be getting nicer!

Live on the edges of zone 2 so relatively central, but yes I guess I mean when I go into central London.

Its weird because I genuinely have never felt that before, even when kids were smaller.

Just for a bit of comparison, I was living in London (Peckham) in the 80s, when there were riots, IRA bombs, race tensions, mass football hooliganism (near Millwall's ground). I don't remember wandering around being scared, there was plenty of trouble if you looked for it, but the vast majority were unscathed.

I’ve lived here all my life and it does feel sketchier now than it did 5/10 years ago. I remember as a child seeing lots of rough sleepers when we would come into town, then in the 2000s that seemed to have stopped but now it’s worse than ever. I’m definitely more aware of petty crime eg phone theft/mugging than 10 years ago and society as a whole feels much more precarious than it once did - the social contract/expectation that most people are decent and responsible seems to have been eroded. Not just a London thing but probably exacerbated in big cities where you’re at close quarters all the time.

I don’t know how much of this is a measurable change in crime rates etc and how much is down to my own perception of risk having changed now that I’m a parent rather than a carefree young person. I walked through Leicester Square with my DC a few weeks ago just an hour before a child was stabbed, and when I read the news that was the first time I’ve felt actively uneasy as a parent responsible for my child. I’ve never had that feeling of being a potential target before, even around 7/7 etc.

Yes, I do get what you mean OP. Obviously London is a huge place and it’s unlikely to be the same everywhere, but I’m in suburban north London and we’re moving out next year primarily for schools, but also because our area now feels ‘edgy’ in all the wrong ways.

There’s very little sense of community now (I’ve lived here all my life so have borne witness to how it’s changed dramatically in recent years); everyone’s atomised and only mixing in their little bubbles; lots of knife crime and a huge rise in anti-social and intimidating behaviour; town centre dirty and run down - feels like I’m ‘running the gauntlet’ going along the high street with DD6. I get that this decline can be seen in many other areas, but London is like an extreme version of everything and we are lucky in that we have the option to move somewhere that’s relatively unaffected.

Our public transport here in Zone 5 has also never really recovered since covid, so it’s become more of an effort to get into central London from where we are, so we’re no longer even benefitting from what’s on offer there - the balance of pros and cons around London loving has really shifted for us. Every time I’ve made it into central London recently it’s also felt a bit ‘off’ to me - aggressive beggars on almost every train, and a restless, unsettled vibe - so as much as I’ll miss my roots here, and the buzz and convenience of a big city I’m increasingly certain about our decision to move on. Basically we’re after something a bit more ‘wholesome’ and relaxed.

It feels a lot safer than it did in the 80s. It was much sketchier then. I used to dread arriving at Kings Cross.

I was born here and grew up in South London in the 80s/90s. I don’t feel this way at all. I regularly commute into town with and without my kids and it doesn’t feel any different to me. My local area has gentrified over the last 15 years so that feels safer and cleaner if anything. Some people are rude, lots of people are friendly. Same as always really.

Interesting thread, this.

In my 50s now and living in the countryside after being a city person until about 15 yrs ago.

Went to a nice jazz evening with my 2 children in their early 20s living in London a few months ago.

In Dalston.

Very good night and I remember noticing through a couple of big glasses of vino collapso how mellow it was on Dalston High Street afterwards even though it was so scruffy.

The kids are entirely inured to that kind of late-night, semi-sketchy environment ofc and we got food and the train back to more central where they live along with loads of other young'ns.

Am not there all the time but I think that's how all big cities have always been, tbh. Individuals' awareness and perception just changes with the circs.

And I think that most ppl think that they're safe - right up until the moment that they're not. Fortunately 99.999 pc of the time, everything is cool ofc.

Am planning to move back central if I can do it when the last one leaves tbh...there's only the cost that would dissuade me, not the danger...

I wouldn't go into the west end really for any reason now. Maybe for a meal in Soho in the evening once a year but I always use Uber/taxis.
I don't do public transport. It's too busy and crowded and I feel like I'll have a panic attack. I can't be in crowds and have to be really careful on the pavement as if I fall I will break my bones.
I think my area has remained the same really, central but kind of quiet. But that's quite unique.
There's plenty of areas of London where I used to work where I'd be wary of going now.
I used to have a lot of clients in tower Hamlets which is a very poverty stricken borough. Nothing bad ever happened but because of my health I just prefer to stay local.

I've been here nearly 20 years, and I feel as safe and happy here as I always have. If anything, the small regional city I was born in has suffered a lot more than London.

I think there is a lot of negative news about London and that affects everybody. London is more crowded than ever before and so the rise in crime rate is proportionate, but reports are sensationalist, I’ve been in london all my life and the only difference I notice is how many more people there are everywhere!

Not to dismiss what you're saying about London at all, I definitely feel the city I live in is sketchier now for similar reasons.
But I wonder how much is age related for me as I am feeling more anxious about lots of things. Might this be a factor too?

What I'd add to my earlier thoughts is just to emphasise how we've all observed how London's massively polarised in recent years.

A) From the rest of the country - much more so now than it always was.

B) Within itself. If you're in the absolute top 2/3 per cent, its an absolute playground, isn't it? Much more top end stuff even than there ever was - open to the global rich, ofc.

Normal Londoners are skirting round the edges of that whilst paying extortionate rent; liveable with for a while, but often unsustainable in the long term.

I'd be up for moving back though for a year or two - before I run out of energy...

I'm a 56 year old woman and have no problem going into central London at any time, on my own or with others. Live in zone 3. Feel just as safe as ever have done, been living here nearly 40 years.

I just don't see anything worrying.

I grew up in London, Dalston to be exact in the 80s and 90s. Before it was hipster. I never felt unsafe on our council estate, never felt unsafe going to school on the "murder mile". I'm 56 now and still don't feel unsafe going anywhere in London, and neither do my dc. Which makes me very happy indeed.

I feel as safe as I ever did at 46 as a lifelong Londoner. I wonder OP, if some of daughter's anxiety is getting to you as you suggest.

Things do feel grim in terms of homelessness being the worst I have ever seen it, more street sleepers than ever, and more of them than ever are sadly in a truly a dreadful state - shoeless, high on drugs, seriously underweight, missing limbs etc. But that doesn't make me feel unsafe, just sad and angry that a situation has been created where so many vulnerable people are pushed onto the streets.

62, born and brought up in SE London, just off the Old Kent Road, moving out in late 90s. I don't feel unsafe when I come into London, which I do regularly, but do see a difference in some areas, that once were calmer/ less congested and now seem very crowded and even more tatty than the 90s, but not unsafe. I live now in NE Hampshire and believe me parts of this county give me more concerns and Winchester (supposedly one of the best areas in the country to live) of an evening, can be very intimidating at times and you'd not believe the drunks / addicts that roam the small City centre area beggings and generally getting up to mischief! I have always been street wise and have witnessed pick pockets in areas such as the Borough recently, but I think that crowds bring out the criminals anywhere!

I never felt unsafe in the 30-odd years I lived in London - apart from King's Cross, before the redevelopment.

Some parts of Zone 1 were very run down and seedy in the early 90s. A lot of it looked like New York did in the 70s. Cardboard shanty towns in Waterloo and Lincoln's Inn Fields.

There are noticeably far more people now though. The Tube never seems to be quiet.

Visible and open consumption of class A drugs seems to be a 'thing' now too. Very common to see someone smoking crack, or even injecting heroin - until maybe 5 or so years back I don't ever recall seeing it at all. A real problem in the bit on Zone 3 where I lived until recently, as well as a lot of people in dire need of mental health support.

@MichaelAndEagle Yes absoloutely it could be, which is partly why I asked. I wanted to get a bit of an idea about whether it was me that was changing rather than London.

My friend used to live on Caledonian Road around 2000 and it was awful. I remember seeing the most epic drug money drop off when we were having a fry up in a cafe one morning. And when I would stay the night you would hear prostitues having huge arguments with their customer/ pimps. It was really rough.

I was on Tottenham Court Road yesterday and there are now a load of homeless tents by Goodge Street. I cant ever remeber that before. And then I went through Finsbury Park which addmittedly has always been sketchy. But there were drug addicts / alcoholics/ dealers everywhere. The levels of social issues, addiction and povery were much more obvious to me than they ever have been.

I have moved from inner suburbs to outer and it is very quiet where I live, but the area I used to be still feels the same, as does central London.

Well the difference is that violence is random now. You do not have to be in a gang to be knifed and attacked violently these days. I avoid the tube, trains and buses now. Which means expensive taxis. It should not be like this when we pay so much in taxes so at least we should not have a crime ridden city. This is becoming a lawless place. Sadly most people and politicians are very dismissive of it all.

It doesn't seem worse to me (lived here 20 years)

I don't feel in personal danger (I live Zone 2) but I think there are more homeless people and people with obvious mental health/addiction problems around stations, in parks etc which creates a feeling of decline and that the various agencies that should be looking after them are failing. This makes everything feel less stable - it's the Broken Window Theory that disorder spirals, isn't it?

@everythingcrossed yes this is exactly it. I dont know whether he perceived danger from that sense of decline translates to real danger.

I feel no change in London to be honest.