London - A bit of perspective

[Slowhorses1]

I grew up in London, have lived here all my life and always loved it. However, the last year I haven't felt as safe. This summer was the first time I've ever felt edgy going into town with my kids. Everything just feels a bit grimmer than it ever has before.

That said, I don't know if its just me. My daughter has been suffering a bit from anxiety so I don[t know if its just rubbed off a bit on me.

I know some people have always found London grim, so this is directed more to people who have previously / still enjoyed it and to see if anyone has noticed this change.

I think sensationalist news reporting about crime in London is very much part of the broken window. I wish journalism was more responsible.

the homeless tents around town, I find quite jarring..but when I was young we could live in squats and very affordable short life co operative housing, which doesn’t seem to happen now.

I think basically people’s experiences of London vary hugely depending on where they live and how that area has changed in recent years. For example, there’s been a phenomenon whereby inner and outer London have essentially swapped around, so that whereas when I was growing up the outer suburbs were the safe, ‘naice’, aspirational part that young families moved to, it’s now inner London that is generally cleaner, safer and more sought after, while the outer areas have often declined quite dramatically.

It’s grim everywhere at the moment. Anti social behaviour seems the norm now. But …

I’d still rather enjoy the benefits of London and put up with the low level violence (you’re extremely unlikely to be randomly stabbed in London ) than have to put up with a similar level of anti social behaviour in a boring suburb with crap public transport and no diversity.

The grass is very rarely greener. Especially when you live in London.

I could have written this and also wondered if it was me…

from friends I do know places like san fran, NYC, some cities in Germany and Paris are having similar issues

I think the world / country as a whole feels edgier and less safe.

I do not feel actually unsafe out and about in London, never have.

But I think that since the beginning of the year the Farage / Reform narrative has made it easier for people to express hostile and unfriendly opinions. X is off the scale and it seeps into every day life even if you don’t read it. The horrific riots have knocked people for six, realising just how much hate and anger simmers.

Meanwhile the COLC and fears of cuts , and a divide and rule narrative has had people turning against other groups they see as a threat to their slice of the pie. It is blatant on MN. Those in benefits, in social housing, ‘Boomers’, pensioners losing WFA, now people who might (allegedly) lose council tax discount. Everyone is looking at each other with suspicion and resentment.

That’s what makes me feel less secure in my environment and life.

ETA I have seen more street homelessness and been harassed by people with MH issues or anti-social intent in Bristol and Eastbourne than I have in London this year.

I lived in London until I had children then we moved out to the coast. I felt the same 10 years ago, just wasn't for me or my children anymore. Now I visit a couple of times a year - it's changed so much! Wouldn't ever come back to live and our pace of life has changed so much. I don't miss it as much as I thought I would, that said there's good and bad everywhere you live!

@bluescreendot interesting. Ive been thinking where we would move to if we decided too, and nowhere in the UK seems to fit the bill.

Part of me wants to just ship out and go somewhere totally different, like Lisbon or Valencia.

Btw, the Broken Windows theory was basically popularised by a very successful PR job by William Bratton (police commissioner) and Rudy Giuliani (mayor) to prove what a great job they personally had done cleaning up NYC. Time and subsequent data haven't supported it, and it looks increasingly likely it was another case of confusing correlation with causation and the changes in NYC had very little to do with the policing strategy.

I have to say, my sister lives in America and on two different occasions people have been shot in her street in the last 10 days. I guess things could always be worse!

I was born in London and lived there for many years as an adult and never felt unsafe. I moved away in 2016. I now visit several times a year, both for work and pleasure. It’s still my favourite city in the world but I do agree it feels less safe now – and in fact I was mugged two years ago and someone tried (and failed) to steal my phone last year.

Having said that, I don’t think it’s a London-specific thing. All the major cities I’ve been in over the past 18 months have seemed more run down than previous visits, and there is certainly a bigger presence of homelessness and visibility of drug use. Unfortunately I think it’s just a hallmark of poverty levels climbing.

Same. We are often wondering where would we move to if we left London, and can’t figure where it might be. Valencia is fab!

To be fair, in recent months I’ve revisited several other familiar Dutch, Belgian and French cities and noticed many of the same issues - all of them definitely felt ‘sketchier’ than when I’d been there previously. And my brother reports similar in Vancouver, where he currently lives. So it may well be a widespread city thing atm.

I'm nearly 70 and don't feel in any particular danger - am out and about on public transport at all hours of the day and night. I know where I'm going and keep my wits about me.

I don't think London is grimmer or edgier than in the past - in fact it can feel safer in that there is so much going on, the shops are open late, museums have late nights, pop-up restaurants/bars etc., so people are out and about. Safety in numbers and all that.

Only things that get me on edge are cyclists who ignore the highway code, people oblivious to their surroundings as they have ear buds in/looking at phones, litter and dog shit. Apart from that, all's good!

Where would you say has declined quite dramatically?

My one and only direct brush with gun crime in London, was when two blokes in suits were having an argument on Old Compton Street (on a beautiful, warm summer Saturday morning at about 8am, of all times. I was sat outside a cafe having breakfast.)

I sat rigid as Bloke A loudly threatened to pull his 'shooter' on Bloke B. Bloke B didn't believe that Bloke A had a 'shooter'. Bloke A briefly pulled a pistol out of his waistband. Bloke B loudly gulped and went white as a sheet. Then they both went silent and vanished in opposite directions, just as a police car came round the corner.

It was like something out of a Guy Ritchie film.

So funny, I was literally just starting a similar thread when I saw this one.

I was in London this week, having lived there when I was younger, and was pretty shocked at the state of things.

The tube is all the worse for not having manned ticket booths. Tourists were wandering round not knowing where to turn to (this is in central London, obviously). There were no announcements that the District line was totally closed while we were on another line, leading to a minor crush as people headed to another line and piled on that one. Other foreigners clearly didn't know where to go at all.

The street was literally filthy, piles of trash everywhere under signs saying "don't leave rubbish here". Just literally filthy.

I saw a man who seemed to be not in a normal mental state grab a whole display of goods and walk out of a Tesco Express, looking menacingly at everyone. Needless to say no-one confronted him because no-one is that stupid to risk their life! Never seen anything like it. When I told the security guard he just laughed, maybe he was in on it, who knows?

Obviously some people were nicely dressed but not to the standards of even a few years ago.

A beggar confronted people in my carriage and looked like he was going to get aggressive when no-one gave him money, this I had never seen before, either. Obviously there were beggars but not so aggressive and Phys confronting people.

Edit: I also had racial abuse of the worst kind said to me by some Americans (of all people) as I was walking along. That had never happened to me before, either, in all my years of living in outer London 😔. They said people like me are an "infestation". It's never happened before.

Overall there was a general decline on display.

I don't feel any less safe but there is clearly a huge problem with rough sleepers and, especially, those who take heroin and/or synthetic opioids. It's not unusual to see men (usually) stumbling around or passed out in a shop door in a way that you haven't seen them for many years. And clearly, their presence doesn't make an area less safe but it can give that impression.

I would say it's been in decline for a lot more than a year tbh. It is sooo crowded now, all the time. It feels tense and the place is absolutely filthy. The homelessness is completely out of control, and everywhere stinks of pot and urine. I only ever go very central so don't know what the suburbs are like. There used to be such a buzz about London which for me has all but vanished. I don't feel unsafe precisely, but I certainly pay a lot more attention to my surroundings than I once did. How ever much I hate the crowds, I wouldn't venture anywhere off the beaten path anymore - I used to love finding little quiet, hidden alleys and shortcuts, I definitely don't do that anymore. Maybe it's age though, or maybe it's just that we hear so much more news now about crime. It's also very relevant that the town I grew up in has declined far, far more; I feel much safer in London than I do there now so I think we're actually seeing more the decline of the UK than the decline of London specifically. And if you travel, you actually see the exact same thing everywhere, it's not just a British thing. I think we all need to start asking why, and what to do about it.

I grew up in London, Mum lives close to Richmond Park still- a beautiful area, probably one of the nicest in London in my opinion- it feels 'safe' around where she lives at any rate - although I was mugged as a teenager on Richmond Green.

Mum uses that superb ''freedom card''that gives free train, tube and bus travel to over 60's and travels everywhere by public transport, and goes to Museums and Galleries on a weekly basis- She {so far} has always been ok on public transport, but did have a clumsy male knock her flying when he was running for a train - turns out he knew her! in a city of millions she got cannoned into by someone she knew...what are the chances of that happening?!

This is absoloutely my impression @rumblegrumble

Leaving the statistics to one side, it’s more about the vibe. I finally left London last year. I had been living in an area that was okay but has gone drastically downhill in recent years. I realise this is replicated across the country. I won’t bang on about the practical differences in how I’ve navigated London over the years. But in the end it doesn’t really matter what anyone else thinks about it.

I know people who would absolutely never leave. I still have to go in occasionally and that’s central London. And I really hate it. I haven’t been to Oxford Street or Leicester Square for several years because they make me feel very uneasy and they have done for a long time.

I first started living in London about 30 years ago now and it definitely goes in cycles. I presume everywhere else goes in cycles too. I think one of the differences now is I can’t see anyone being incentivised to change anything.

So to address your question directly, I have had periods where I’ve enjoyed it a lot, but I’ve long avoided certain areas which some people are now only just feeling are quite sketchy.

again, putting statistics aside, if you’re thinking to leave, it’s about how you feel isn’t it. If it brings you down on the daily basis, then it’s possibly time to leave.

@rumblegrumble yes, that buzz is long gone IMHO.

It's Nitazenes, and 'Spice' type synthetics.

Heroin from Afghanistan has all but disappeared as the Afghan supply chain is disrupted at source by the Taliban.

So instead there are far worse chemicals about coming out of labs in China.

The ''War on drugs'' has been well and truly lost.

@Doliveira Well I’m in Enfield and the whole borough, even the historically ‘nice’ bit that I’m in, is markedly worse than it was a decade or even five years ago. Lots of people are moving out now - I’m a school governor locally and schools that were oversubscribed until fairly recently are really struggling for pupils, with many families moving out to places like Herts and Essex, where the schools remain much fuller.

I think it’s outer boroughs like this and Croydon that have gone downhill the most. Certainly here, it feels as if the population has been ‘hollowed out’, with a lot of the middle income/just managing type families having moved out and only the wealthier and more deprived extremes remaining. Increasingly those in the former group (ourselves and lots of our friends) is avoiding the run down local facilities and paying for al their services (schools, hospitals, leisure centres) privately. The two groups don’t mix, and it’s creating a two-tier system and no sense of community.

Personally we now even travel out to Herts or further into London to go to the park or cinema with DD as our local facilities are so unpleasant (dirty, litter strewn, ageing and always with a likelihood of some kind of anti-social behaviour thrown in).

There are homeless tents everywhere though aren’t there….I was passing thru a lovely touristy small nw market town yesterday ( population around 20k) ….there were 2 homeless tents in the graveyard….locals said they been popping up for over a year now……imagaine it’s everywhere