London - A bit of perspective

[Slowhorses1]

I grew up in London, have lived here all my life and always loved it. However, the last year I haven't felt as safe. This summer was the first time I've ever felt edgy going into town with my kids. Everything just feels a bit grimmer than it ever has before.

That said, I don't know if its just me. My daughter has been suffering a bit from anxiety so I don[t know if its just rubbed off a bit on me.

I know some people have always found London grim, so this is directed more to people who have previously / still enjoyed it and to see if anyone has noticed this change.

I regularly use tube/train/buses and do not feel like this at all. I feel perfectly safe.

@charcoalhairmask
''I also had racial abuse of the worst kind said to me by some Americans (of all people) as I was walking along. That had never happened to me before, either, in all my years of living in outer London 😔. They said people like me are an "infestation". It's never happened before.''

If anyone is an ''infestation'' it's rude and obnoxious tourists.

I felt my eyes prickle with tears when I read your post.

The people who said that are the lowest of the low.

I hope they get their pockets picked!

I was mugged - or steamed as they called it at the time - at Notting Hill Carnival, and also got attacked on my doorstep in Brixton by a bloke who pushed me inside my bathroom and told me to stay there while he ransacked the house. This was in the mid-80s, however, at which point there was also an enormous homeless encampment on the South Bank. I also had several bikes stolen and nearly got caught up in a couple of riots... So, a lot of this stuff is not new, but as someone else has said, it comes in cycles and affects different areas at different times. I don't live in London now, but visit frequently and don't worry. I keep my wits about me and my phone in my pocket, though - but then that's just sensible in cities.

I grew up in London, lived away for a bit but I've lived back here for the past 20 years. I've never felt unsafe here, except being vulnerable to phone snatchers but I keep mine on a lanyard now. I live in zone 2 and we are visiting places in zone 1 most weekends with young dcs. We've had a brilliant summer visiting attractions, museums, playing in fountains, exploring parks, seeing theatre shows and concerts. There's always a packed schedule of things to do for families and we never get bored. We are usually at home by 6pm so never out after dark.

There are lots of homeless people in my area, and lots of rubbish and dog poo on the streets. But I am used to that now and I don't feel unsafe because of it,, though it's annoying. There are a few areas which have been taken over by homeless tents and I don't feel safe walking through those areas, but it's easy enough to avoid.

I use public transport a lot as we are car free, and I find bus users very unfriendly, and the service unreliable, to the extent that I'll walk a mile or take the Overground on a longer route in preference to taking a bus. Tubes are fine and quick though, and I'd still rather be here than relying on a car or waiting on an hourly train or bus service.

I live in Zone 5, have lived all over London for 25 years, now in my 40s. I think as we get older we are more aware of our vulnerabilities, but I certainly don't feel less safe overall, nor am I noticing an increase in homeless people/drug users. I'm more aware of the political unease being reflected in racism which I try to be vigilant about, but I don't feel less safe. I still regularly commute to Soho/Central for dinners out and take public transport home.

Bristol is quite bad for aggressive begging.

When I visit, I tend to steer clear of Broadmead and Stokes croft

Cities in England are generally filthy outside of the leafy suburbs.

Seaside Towns are rather grim, as well.

@TempsPerdu yes. I know Croydon so I understand what you are saying. I think areas we thought weren’t optimal in the 70’s and 80’s now in retrospect seem absolutely fine as they were, because they have become so tatty and unappealing. At the same time, areas that were very ordinary back then are now super bougie and expensive.

Something I have definitely noticed in recent months OP (and I live here too) - is how much worse the situation of the homeless people is.

Yes I saw some sights before, and there have always been street sleepers and the odd crazy.

But in the last few months I see stuff that concerns me daily - and is often quite disturbing. Half naked people, shoeless, filthy. Unconscious in the street or tube entrances - the police do nothing if you tell them, just shrug. I saw a girl lying in the middle of the pavement on Piccadilly a few weeks ago and the police offer just kicked at her with his shoe to establish if she was alive, then she was left there.

Im quite embarrassed by it tbh - I wonder what on earth the tourists must be thinking.

I report people often now - every week or two. Nothing ever happens.

A guy I’ve been seeing daily for the last few weeks I’ve reported repeatedly to police. Surrounded by his own filth, food packets, bottles of urine, cans of beer. The floor around him is going black from it. All the police say is ‘we are aware’ - nothing happens though. It’s pretty desperate.

I think it would still be astonishingly rare to experience violence from a stranger - particularly on the tube.

Plenty of weird behaviour but I travel by tube daily and have never seen anything like this.

No I don't think it's got worse and indeed in some areas things have improved a lot, often due to gentrification and more money going in to the local high streets.

I think the internet has completely changed our perception of things too. Not that long ago your had the radio, a coupe of TV news programmes per day and newspapers. Now we have a constant onslaught of bad news streaming in real time which inevitably makes the sense of crime and disorder feel far worse than it really is. We then see what we expect to see based on preconceptions. There's always been societal issues and violence we just didn't know about all of it in the way we do now. And also, if you come to London or any big city expecting it to be dangerous and dirty then that's what you'll notice. Not the millions of people safely living their ordinary lives every day in perfectly decent areas.

Also at the same time (and quite possibly linked) is that levels of anxiety in the general population has gone up making our sense of perceived risks much greater.

The nature of crime has changed. Have muggings really increased in volume or just changed to being mobile phone snatching rather than handbags?

Yes there are mentally ill people on the streets and homeless. Is there more of people with MH conditions or are we just seeing it more as they are less likely to be cared for in the home by the vast army of unpaid family members as was often the case in the past? Besides, in the late 90's when I came to London there were many many more dodgy areas than I feel there are now (Kings Cross or Embankment for example).

And I don't think London is any dirtier than it was. Yes some areas are grubbier than others as Councils struggle with funding and cut some services but it's not 'filthy' unless your standards are unreasonably high for such a huge city with thousands of tourists swelling the population as well.

Often I think this sort of negative thinking just increases people's worry without adding any value at all. Find the good and concentrate on that.

I haven't noticed any overall difference since I first started living and working in London in the late 80s. Some areas have improved, some areas have gone downhill. I lived in Tottenham for a short while in the 90s which had quite a few, um, interesting residents. I then went on to live Archway area a year or two later and that was noticeably grimmer then than it is now. I also remember what Kings Cross was like before it was redeveloped and that was not a nice place to be late at night. And have you been to Spitalfields recently? It's so much nicer around there than it used to be, although I do miss the old market.

Funnily enough the only time I've been a direct victim of crime in/around London was when I got mugged at knifepoint in Lewisham in 1988.

I stopped living and working in London a while back but my DD lives in E1 and my mum in south London so I still visit very regularly.

Lived here for 35 years and feel as safe as ever. I think it’s easy to forget what it was like in the 80s/90s and that getting older (and becoming a parent) can switch on anxiety that didn’t exist before.

I do agree the homelessness and rough sleeping are worse than they have ever been, and homeless charities concur.

I've lived in London for 42 years now (currently North East) and I feel if anything it's a lot better than it was in the 80s/90s. My bit of it has been hugely gentrified. Plus transport is much better now. Night tube etc. I've never felt unsafe in the West End because it's alwasy so busy and brightly lit.

I agree with this. I haven't necessarily seen the same sort of edginess in z1 - possibly because of where we go - but living in Croydon Borough, the stark difference between the haves and have nots is getting worse, compounded by a lack of investment in infrastructure and the town centre which means it's incredibly run down. Comparing (for example) Riddlesdown or Sanderstead to West Croydon or Norbury is ridiculous - it used to be urban vs suburban but now it really doesn't feel like that.

I don’t the tents are young people who would be house sharing, they’re trafficked or gang affiliated economic refugees.

@Gerwurtztraminer for many Londoners, it’s the case that the news isn’t reporting stuff - I mostly ignore the news though.

It’s what I saw in my local area but as I say, it’s a cycle. For a younger person who hasn’t seen a down part, it will appear new.

. But of course some parts of London aren’t yet experiencing the rough things. Sometimes it can even depend on your route. There’s a few stations to choose if you’re walking back to my old flat. There’s one where you’re more likely to be aggressively approached by dealers. It wasn’t my favoured station for other reasons - but some young lads living in my block were choosing to avoid it. Others were probably buying there.

Dealing being so open now is a big factor for the discomfort felt by some.

I think your post is a good insight though, I think many agree with you. It’s one reason I think there won’t be a change - not a lot of people are bothered by it. Also, if you don’t go out in the evening, be it for work or anything else, it’s might go unnoticed.

Lived here my whole life, grew up in Hackney when it was rough, rough. Lived by hackney Downs (Pembury, for anyone local) and a few other places within the borough before moving up to Stoke Newington.

I'd say I agree with the majority of posters, it isn't worse but there is a resurgence of visible homelessness and begging and larger numbers of evidently mentally ill people, combined with much more widespread publicity of crime comparatively to even 10 years ago.

20 years ago, I wouldn't have been aware of much of the crime even in my own borough. I knew quite a few people who were stabbed or shot between 2000-2010, and I would hear about it through friends, maybe a week or so later. Now I often know within hours because of social media reporting.

And this is still the case.
I live in Wales but have visited London twice recently, staying in and visiting various bits. Didn't feel any less safe to me, so I think either it's to do with your DCs or with the constant media insinuation that everywhere is dangerous lately.

This is a really interesting thread. I used to live in a Manchester suburb and felt far less safe there than I do now living in London. I travel on tube multiple times a week. I haven’t noticed an increase in nutters or homeless people. I’d much rather be in London where there’s always loads of people around than some of the smaller towns and cities in the Uk. I felt quite vulnerable walking home from work in the dark in the previous small town I lived in but never give it a second thought in London. I do take precautions. Always wear a cross body bag and don’t walk around with phone in hand. I do keep cash in a pocket just in case but in ten years nothing has ever happened so I’d need it. Some of the comments here do surprise me, makes me wonder if I’m walking around in blissful ignorance but I genuinely don’t feel the danger or bleakness others describe.

I am in Central London (zone 1) and I probably feel more 'edgy' going into other zones of London. I mean like Camden or Tooting or any suburb really. I feel very at home in zone 1 - because it is my home. It makes a difference that I can walk most everywhere - my usual routes are through St James Park, then up to Green Park, or I can walk to Belgravia, Sloane Square or the other way to Battersea Park.

I don't have to get the tube and my destinations are probably quite salubrious (art/theatre/local restaurants/naice places). My local community is very 'old school' London - trades/charity shops/street market and there is a lot of greenery, plus it's right by the river and super-quiet.

The major issue is dog shit - soooo much poo on the pavements. And we have huge bins that are emptied at least twice a day - even Sundays - so there is NO excuse!!!!

I don't live in London but I visit regularly.

Feels safer than my deprived midlands town to be honest.

Many people I know have had their phones snatched. Two people had their bank accounts cleaned out from it. A colleague has had his moped stolen 5x. Another one 3x.
There is more graffiti (Waterloo Bridge used to have graf hosed off, now it’s there and stays there) and litter. The dog mess I don’t see in prime central, but far more outside it.
Weed openly smoked/vaped all hours, including on buses. Dealers zooming around doing door drops. Open shoplifting, which I didn’t used to see but now witness far more often. I’ve seen groups in central and z2 shooting up in daylight. Way more begging has moved into my area, and they fight and piss themselves (again, I have seen it first hand).
You can blithely ignore it all, but it’s not a sign of a healthy city. No one goes: Ah yes, now THIS is what people want.

@kindlyensure good to know those places are still nice. I sometimes wonder how they are holding up but I cba going there because I dealt with crowded Tubes for decades.

I completely see that outer London is likely a lot different. When in north London my go to for going out was Hampstead and it was still nice a year ago and I imagine it still is.

Really interesting thread. Thank you for starting it @Slowhorses1 .

I first came to London in the late 80s and there were bits of it then that were very sketchy feeling, at least to me anyway. I remember cardboard city all around Waterloo and the National, which was definitely to be avoided. That's all gone now. The area around Kings Cross was shocking and now that's all bouji shops and fancy flats. We used to go clubbing in Brixton at the Fridge and the Venue in New Cross and I knew how to take the rotor arm out of my ancient car to ensure that no one could nick it. In the early 90s my sister lived in Whitechapel and that was an eyeopener too - not in a good way. Obviously, Chelsea, Fulham, Kensington, Mayfair etc were nice back then and still are now.

I thought that through the 90s and early 00s it felt like London went up in the world and to me felt safer, cleaner and generally more prosperous, at least in the areas I moved around in.

Nowadays, the bits I traipse around don't feel too bad, although lots of places seem very grubby. I'm not sure why we Brits are so bad at putting litter in bins. I'm wary of having my phone out in the places where I know the boys on bikes and scooters snatch them. I'm a gimmer now and don't tend to be out in the early hours of the morning but my DC don't seem to think it is too bad. Some places are transformed as well. I couldn't get over how nice King's Cross is now, the Paddington basin is transforming too and the Battersea Power Station development is really fantastic.

I worry about the increase in knife crime and there seems to be a significant increase in homelessness again too. The centre of Park Lane is now tent city.

Born and bred Londoner age 76 now. I don't feel unsafe at all. Live in zone 2 and the only real difference is that there are many more people around when I'm in central (zone 1) London.