Super yacht sinking - did the crew bravely survive or did they abandon their the passengers

[mids2019]

So....most of the crew survived this tragedy but the passengers died. Do you think it will emerge the crew should have e done more to alrt the passengers and indeed put their lives in danger to attempt a rescue? Maybe it was all just too fast?

I just think there seems silence from the crew at moment despite being survivors of a sinking vessel who have a story to tell. Are lawyers advising they stay quiet on this?

The baby was one so I'm assuming that it will be similar to most one year old babies and woke up wanting feeding or a nappy change or "just because", and the mother took the baby upstairs so it's crying didn't wake the others.

Was there no air conditioning?

The mother and baby were sleeping on deck. This was in early reports.

I’m not going back through all this to wherever the “dragging the anchor” theory arose as a contribution to the situation.

A vessel dragging its anchor is only a problem if it is moving towards the shoreline, rocks, or other vessels. There’s no indication that happened - so no reason to suggest it affected the stability of Bayesian.

I think it’s pretty clear many posters don’t have any clues about sailing.

Id be extremely surprised to see a boat that size sinking because a storm. Even Wo the engines on etc…. Those boats are supposed to withstand proper storms afterall.
Putting the engine on would have helped the boat staying at the same place, on its anchor. That would be about avoiding hitting other boats or the shore. I am struggling to see how it would prevent sinking in itself tbh.

What sounds more likely to me is the fact there was a water sprout. Now THAT is a totally different situation. Both in terms of the strength of the winds but also around the quick change of direction.
It would explain why one boat had issues but not the other that was quite close (but how close??) as they are extremely local phenomena.
Think about the difference between a storm and a tornado on land. And how houses that withstand a storm are ripped into pieces by a tornado….

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Yep. All of that.

So much misinformation and conjecture. For a start they didn't even die on the same day and police are reporting nothing untoward about SC’s death.

I have been thinking about this so much . Two men , unexpectedly acquitted in a high profile , high stakes trial .
And both die accidentally within days of each other ???!!!!

So strange .

It was an accident. It's sad that people died. But let's have some perspective. 3000 odd refugees died in the Med last year.

I find headlines like this more shocking. This is abhorrent & the news barely caused a ripple: Horror in the Med as Iraqi girl, 16, 'is choked to death while being raped in front of her mother on sinking migrant boat by man who had just seen his wife and daughter drown' in disaster that saw dozens killed off Italy | Daily Mail Online

They have moved away from the waterspout theory towards a down surge theory.

We don't know whether any other yacht would have fared better in a down surge (or water spout for that matter).

And yes, it's performance in a storm etc would be considered for any sea going vessel. There is a limit to what can be allowed for however. If any craft.

We also don't know if user error, as such, contributed either.

The manufacturer seems to have pointed out at least one error (re. the anchor drag).

Seas, oceans, climate patterns, these are all inherently unpredictable

Yes and if it is a phenomenon like a down surge, it's unlikely another craft would:have fared well either.

Those are the risks anyone takes when on the ocean etc.
Especially when you can't or won't going to harbour for storms.

Personally I think this will end up being a level of incompetence/lack of risk management/complacency, perhaps combined with a trickier/more challenging than average craft.

If a plane was about to crash though, it's a different lay out and scenario, the passenger's wouldn't be tucked away down below sleeping. If it's about to crash, you know about it as soon as the crew do.

Unless you were there and witnessed what happened on that fatal early morning, it's best to not assume anything.
Some or most survivors will must probably suffer from survivor guilt and PTSD. They don't need people blaming them on top of it. I hope they receive the psychological and emotional support they deserve as well as the family/friends of those who lost their lives.

Dragging anchor is very bad, doing so for 15 minutes without raising a major alert onboard does not make any sense. Unless the anchor malfunctioned and this overwhelmed the crew at the expense of other security procedures like getting everyone on deck.

What I don't understand either is; on a sailing boat with the weather kicking off, the movement would wake you up. If it didn't and a porthole was open, water coming in would wake you. The first thing you would do would be to close the porthole, you wouldn't need to be an experienced sailor or anyone to tell you to do so. Maybe it was already taking water from somewhere else, blocking exit routes and that's why some portholes were found open.

I’m not going back through all this to wherever the “dragging the anchor” theory arose as a contribution to the situation.

A vessel dragging its anchor is only a problem if it is moving towards the shoreline, rocks, or other vessels. There’s no indication that happened - so no reason to suggest it affected the stability of Bayesian.

I think the anchor dragging discussion is not about the yacht's stability but that it was a warning that something wasn't right and people needed to be woken up and brought to an assembly point. There was time for that in those sixteen minutes, but once the downburst happened it was every person for themselves.

You seem determined to defend the design of the boat, and steer toward crew incompetence.

Whereas I take one look at the preposterous design proportions, and see a giant dare to Mother Nature; who has duly responded.

Let's agree to differ, and let the myriad official experts investigate and issue their findings.

Well of course not. It is not generally possible to anchor under sail.

Sails make the boat move.

However you do get windage on the mast and boom if the wind is strong enough. I have "sailed" along at six knots with all sails dropped, in no tide.

Agreed, dragging anchor would be a reason to start to wake some crew but not a cause of immediate panic.

I definitely think the manufacturer is trying to influence the narrative

Equally there are often only a few senior crew on board and the stewards etc don't have to have any real knowledge of boats, and even some of the deck crew don't really have to know much, it's more a case of doing what you are told.

So that means in a crisis there a very few people who are going to be much use to anyone.

That's not a criticism of the crew, just a recognition that these yachts are more floating hotel than anything else and are staffed accordingly

A vessel dragging its anchor is only a problem if it is moving towards the shoreline, rocks

Someone mentioned the possibility of the anchor getting snagged.

In most cases like these it ends up being a combination of factors.

Five of the people who died managed to move into a single cabin on the side of the boat that would have filled with water last. They didn't die trapped in their original sleeping quarters. They were conscious and trying to survive. It clearly wasn't all over in "seconds".

It's distasteful that people who died such a horrific death are being so casually blamed for it based on zero evidence whatsoever.

I didn't say design couldn't be a factor, but if it is, I doubt it's the only one.

Yep, it's all conjecture until the investigation is done and reported.

@CanadianJohn

"Was there no air conditioning"

Yes there was but:

Where do you think the aircon gets its power from? The engine as batteries or a generator would be insufficient.

Was the engine on or off? Off - otherwise they could have used it to manoeuvre the vessel.

@MtClair I've read that the other vessel was 500ft away. On Reddit so no idea if that's reliable.
So its likely that the life raft launched itself? Slid off the deck and auto inflated,?
Or did someone launch it I wonder.
Amazing that it was launched. And amazing really that a good proportion of people actually survived.
I can't help but think that the huge mast was a big factor.

@owladventure the sinking (as in vessel fully underwater) happened very quickly, I believe . The investigators have indicated that the movement of the victims was towards air pockets and away from the right hand side, which was the lowermost side.

When people have unexpectedly survived a long time in air pockets before, I believe the vessels in question have been quite close to the surface.

The survivors were in the life raft or (in the case of the mother and baby at least) being hauled into the raft. The ones inside were not accessible for the life raft to reach.