TW: trying to be sensitive - but Why is there such a rape problem in India?

[BabyLlamaZen]

I really, really do not want to upset anyone with this thread or make it into some hideous racist thing, but there clearly is an issue! Obviously most people in India are horrified and protesting.

I really want to understand why there is such a big issue there. The more recent news and the story of the student doctor on the bus years ago - absolutely floored me. I know rape happens everywhere but there stories have been so extreme. I also remember the story of that little girl in public years ago and those women who were raped when going to the toilet outside. It’s always so horrific, violent and involves gang rape? Why is this happening?

You might find ‘Why Men Rape: An Indian Undercover Investigation‘ by Tara Kaushal an informative read.

editing to say I’ve not read it but have heard it recommended or mentioned in conversations! My quick scan of Goodreads reviews reveals a mix of opinions so use the book as a supplement to your own learning, not as gospel.

I remember watching a documentary about that poor girl who was raped on a bus years ago and the had no remorse. I got the impression it was extreme poverty and hate from those men to a middle class woman who was brave enough to take a public bus. It seemed like poverty and the caste system may be partly to blame, although I don’t know in this current example.

It’s horrific isn’t it, I was wondering the same thing after the latest story and actually googled this question. I think it’s a mix of socio economic and cultural factors. High levels of poverty, high levels of sexual repression/taboo, the caste system meaning that if rapists are from certain castes and victims from lower castes there is less justice, corruption in the police force and judiciary, often rallies in support of convicted rapists.

I don’t think I’ll ever forget that bus story. The documentary India’s Daughter was absolutely heart wrenching.

Is it a book? I’m not sure I have the stomach to read it in reslify 😭

Because women are largely worthless and so are to be used as men see fit.
Its very very deep rooted, having a girl child will cost you money as you will have to pay to raise her and then another family will see the benefit of her when older as they will get her labour/earnings and you will also have to pay a dowry.
Thats how it was explained to me by an Indian gentleman once and thats been confirmed by other friends from India. Its a traditional view and not one held by a lot of Indian families but it still exists
I think its changing but its still a problem and women who behave in a way thats not within traditional norms can be seen as "asking for trouble" so raping them isn't a big deal - of course thats a problem all over the world.

I think that may hand been the one I watched. I just couldn’t get over how badly they hurt her, it was horrific. And then that young wife of one of the boys who didn’t even care because she said she was going to die now if her husband was hanged (she was only about 15!)

But even if they are not worth as much, why would you want to hurt them so badly? And these men surely love their own mothers at least and see them as more vulnerable?

Also the most recent one was a doctor! Why?

Because its ok to damage something worthless?
Of course they probably love their Mothers but their mothers probably "behave" and so don't "ask" to be raped

I have asked this question myself too. The endemic violence against women in India is the reason I wouldn't ever want to visit, in spite of knowing the obvious cultural value India has to offer. I wouldn't want my daughter there either and would very much fear for her safety.

A very very patriarchal culture backed up by religious customs that disadvantage and deride women.

As another poster said, the dowry system rendering girl children an expensive nuisance.

Arranged marriages reliant on wealth, dating normally and sex outside marriage is taboo - the result is a large number of incel young men resentful of young women thriving on education, careers and independence. Rape is as often about punishment as it is about sex.

Large parts of India live without effective rule of law. Police and courts are open to bribes. If the girl is poor and low caste, chances are no one will care.

No amount of fancy tech start ups or cosying up to China is going to change any of this. It’s deep rooted and it’s why many educated, affluent, middle class Indians choose to migrate.

DH has Indian friends who live in The Uk now but have commented on how shocked their family who visit are if they are not very cosmopolitan and have not mixed outside their own (usually lower) caste to see even womens knees on full display.
Of course that is all changing but there are still some men in India who have got to their late 20's without seeing a real woman show her body in a way we would consider quite normal here and not even worthy of comment. Wearing jeans/showing hair/using a bus on their own at night can all be seen as signs that a woman is deserving of being taught a lesson

The country has a problem with women and India's judiciary is broken so these men know they can act with impunity. Rape is rarely reported as the police are corrupt and don't take it seriously. There are rapists in the government.

Even though we hear the big cases, the majority of rape is by someone the victim knows. India simply doesn't protect women. It has a caste system so women and girls of lower castes, are seen as fair game.

Women are particularly vulnerable in areas where due to femicide, there are fewer women. They can be bought and sold and India has one of the largest amounts of child marriage in the world. In some villages, rape is a punishment by village elders.

What do you mean by "cosying up to China"?

India hates China. They are at war over border issues.

I have been watching some Bollywood dance routines lately, as I rather like them. The female performers seem to wear quite revealing costumes and have an assertive attitude to their lyrics and dancing. I would have thought most young people there would be aware of the music scene so things must be changing.

I don’t even know what the answer is, but it’s such an enormous country with a growing population that it needs to change. More and more women will keep suffering.

I agree that all the Bollywood films I’ve watched are yes, sexist in part and dated compared to western standards (or at least in a different way) but still more empowering and women are allowed to be sexual and have skin.

I'm Indian, lived there until I was 27. In addition to what everyone else has said already, the inequality, culturally reinforced sexism etc are baked into the legal system. Until 2022 (and even now) a "two finger test" was used to medically test/prove virginity in rape cases:
https://equalitynow.org/news_and_insights/two-finger-test-the-indian-supreme-courts-important-reiteration-of-ban/

The government, police etc don't take sexual abuse seriously. Women Olympic wrestlers have been protesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-67851193

Bollywood films often feature rape.

@BabyLlamaZen I wonder if the female stars feel more empowered by their status. There have been some brave feminist movements coming out of India. I seem to remember an organisation of female only journalists who were met with great hostility when they interviewed men in the more remote areas, since the men did not think they should be journalists.

@cupcaske123 Interesting. I haven't watched them, only dance routines.

It is changing - we can't only use the most horrific cases to judge a society.
@stormy4319trevor I think you are referring to Khabar Lahariya: chambalmedia.com/khabar-lahariya/

A friend explained to me that what most western audiences don't realise when watching Bollywood movies is that the videos accompanying a lot of the popular songs, which they refer to as 'item songs', typically feature a prostitute or what they call a 'dancing girl' of some sort dressed provocatively and dancing in front of a crowd of leering men. It all stopped seeming empowering very quickly once I watched those music videos with that knowledge.

Yes, i remember seeing a short video about these women during a course. They are absolutely awe inspiring. So brave, determined and intelligent and committed to journalism.

@ILoveMooShu So do the female stars become wealthy and have control over their careers, do you know?