TW: trying to be sensitive - but Why is there such a rape problem in India?

[BabyLlamaZen]

I really, really do not want to upset anyone with this thread or make it into some hideous racist thing, but there clearly is an issue! Obviously most people in India are horrified and protesting.

I really want to understand why there is such a big issue there. The more recent news and the story of the student doctor on the bus years ago - absolutely floored me. I know rape happens everywhere but there stories have been so extreme. I also remember the story of that little girl in public years ago and those women who were raped when going to the toilet outside. It’s always so horrific, violent and involves gang rape? Why is this happening?

Traditionally, a woman was considered to be the property of her father. If she was raped, she was considered damaged property "so the rapist must either pay 'compensation' or accept the damaged goods" and marry the victim.[44] To avoid paying the family, the perpetrator often chose to marry the victim, who "had absolutely no choice but to marry the rapist and spend the rest of the life" with him.(Wiki) This I find beyond comprehension.

I don't know about the female stars themselves, it's more of the conceptualisation of the music videos/movie scenes themselves. These for example:

When I travelled in India as a young woman I was sexually assulted multiple times. I was groped on long distance bus journeys and a man tried to remove my clothes in a changing room and I had to scream for help and fight him off. A group of Arab men also tried to lure us into their hotel room with drink and we had to run away. There were also lower level nuisances. Men standing in groups and staring and taking photos on the beach. All my friends experienced similar but we were usually together in a group and none of us were raped or seriously hurt.

At the time I was very naive and I wasn't scared at all. Because all the men were shorter than me I didn't see the danger and thought I would be able to fight them off. Infact one of my friends (who was tiny) chased a group off shouting at them when they tried to pull her skirt down and they all ran away from her.

I thought that it happened for several reasons. They assumed that we were easy because we were westerners. We weren't wearing the right clothes (though we did all wear long floaty hippy skirts and shirts). They weren't allowed girlfriends and so were sexually frustrated and didn't know how to interact with women. I would often see young men holding hands with or hugging other men but not women.

This was the pre feminist younger version of me that was a bit too keen to victim blame (even when I was the victim). In recent years reading about cases of Indian women being raped I have come to understand that it didn't happen because we were foreign, nothing we did or didn't do was to blame and at times we were probably in real danger.

im not sure that rape is more prevent in India than other countries, is it?

there's obviously an issue with collecting rape data for lots of reasons but highest rapes of rape appear to be S Africa, Sweden, USA and UK from what I can find

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

thats definitely a data collection issue!

have you read the news or seen any programme about the Indian issues?

We don’t regularly get gang rapes on buses, women gang raped in fields because they need to use the toilet (there are no proper toilets) or toddlers found in busy squares and raped. It’s a problem in India.

Wiki has 4 references for 'india has one of the lowest per capita rates of rate' 🤔

and 'it classes consensual sex committed on the false promise of marriage as rape'

I travelled to India with DH, at the invitation of a former colleague, his family were clearly quite wealthy and he had invited me to visit before when we worked together in London but had said to come with (not yet) DH and even when we weren't married to wear a ring and say we were. He had drivers, security at their home etc so I never felt in any danger, but his sister and mum never went out without either a male family member or a male member of staff, eg a driver to take his mum to visit her sister. I saw some lovely things and his family were wonderful, but I knew I was seeing the safe sanitised version and it did not encourage me to go back even with DH unless it was to visit my friend.

The women at the top in Bollywood make tons of money and are of course empowered and have as much control over their own money and lives as anyone else in a high powered job, but they still will never admit they are feminists and treat the word "feminism" like it is some sort of left wing extremist madness. Infuriating.

why do you think that rape data collection isn't an issue in ALL countries? why would it be so much more of an issue in India than anywhere else?

As others have pointed out the problem is also the culture/history of India in terms of how it views women, the lack of legal protections and a general couldn't give a shit what happens to women, attitude.

The War on Women is a helpful but often difficult read of you still doubt how dangerous India is to women

Yes there are issues worldwide. And for the reasons stated on here including the widespread not reporting and lack of caring of what happens to poor girls. Your comments are pretty naive at best.

I travelled round India for 6 months on my own in 1995. I was groped on a bus by an Indian man. the bus was stopped by the Indian man driving the bus and the groper was rejected from the bus by the other Indian men on the bus. I have had a much worse sexual assault in Greece and in Bulgaria. I have been raped in the UK

but anecdotes aren't that useful really when answering 'why is there such a rape problem in India'

I'd not get too comfy with that view if I were you. Child sexual abuse is endemic in the UK, behind closed doors in families and online 'content' makers aka rapists. Sexual assault on public transport is now a priority for the UK government. Girls have been trafficked and gang raped in many recent and historic cases in some towns.

I saw a documentary a few years ago. It's a mixture of patriarchal culture, differing values, the caste system and a really huge population - 20 times the uk i think approximately. Men from some parts of society associate women out alone as being "game for it" as well, good girls don't go out socialising especially in the evening alone

I'm not naive at all

to answer 'why is there such a rape problem in India' you first need to establish IS there a rape problem in India? I mean there is a rape problem around the world but is there MORE of a rape problem in India, than the rest of the world?

I'm just watching India's Daughter now (on Prime) what a horrific case.

Murder, violence towards, and sexual assault of women are pretty much a staple of Western films and tv dramas.I don't think you can hold Bollywood up as being particularly bad in this regard.

I understand the caste system in India and the oppression and disrespect for women. but IS rape more of a problem in India particularly? because I haven't seen anything which tells us that it is?

Fundamentally too many men see women as things. There was a great big fuss in India about making rape within marriage illegal. As pp touched on rape of a woman is seen as a crime against a womans father or husband which tells you a lot. india has a bad case of madonna vs whore tbh. I think the sex imbalance due to selective abortions cannot help, some men have zero chance of finding someone to get married to and I think they seethe with hatred towards women. . They like to put them in their place. I once read the same thing about sexual assaults in Egypt, class and income didn’t predict offending there but a desire to put women in their place did.

I think a culture of blaming women is very present as well. Anyone from the culture understands how DIL’s often get the brunt of loads of shit, she as often at the bottom of the food chain in her own home. Even now Indian women have increasingly become more educated yet the purpose is often to secure a good marriage rather than to gain financial independence for herself.

I think the eve teasing can, the vibe in most of these movies for decades has been, girl not interested and pester the shit out of her with stalking and harassment until she gives in.

I am of Indian origin and currently visiting family in India. I am too heartsick to discuss this very complex issue in detail but yes, India has a rape problem. Caused by poor policing, patriarchy, caste, political goons and many other factors.

That said, safety varies widely across the country and comparing the patriarchal state of Rajasthan to the highly educated state of Kerala would be very foolish.
There are very many Indian women who are educated, work and go everywhere without a man. My DD takes public transport when visiting, as do I, and we are not escorted by men.

The Western media also often only highlights Indian women who are raped. Never the ones who sent a space shuttle to Mars on less than the budget of Gravity. Nor do they talk about the immense progress that has been made in the education of women.

Having said all that, yes I agree that India has a rape problem.

I absolutely agree it’s still a big issue and disgusting beyond belief. It isn’t quite as normalised in public however.

Thank you! I absolutely agree it’s not everybody or most people at all, but it is importantly to admit there is an issue. It does a terrible disservice to Indian women to say otherwise.

Anywhere in the world, men rape if they think they can get away with it.