TW: trying to be sensitive - but Why is there such a rape problem in India?

[BabyLlamaZen]

I really, really do not want to upset anyone with this thread or make it into some hideous racist thing, but there clearly is an issue! Obviously most people in India are horrified and protesting.

I really want to understand why there is such a big issue there. The more recent news and the story of the student doctor on the bus years ago - absolutely floored me. I know rape happens everywhere but there stories have been so extreme. I also remember the story of that little girl in public years ago and those women who were raped when going to the toilet outside. It’s always so horrific, violent and involves gang rape? Why is this happening?

And India has a very high rate of child marriage which would not be counted as rape.

A boy was stabbed to death in Spain playing football today. He was 11.

It isn't just the UK.

It isn't just women.

It's male violence.

I haven’t said that once. All I said was that there was problem with rape in India.

Have you seen the documentary "India's daughter"? Forewarning that it is quite distressing but I think it sheds some light on this subject.

I have. It stayed with me a long time.

I read in here the other day that India is the worlds largest consumer of porn (I think Uk is second) and that when a woman is raped and her name is publicly known then her name 'trends' on porn sites

I've travelled in Indian a few times. If I am travelling with a man I am utterly ignored in the most part. If I travel with another woman we have to contend with groping.
I once woke up on a train with a man touching my lips (1st class, supposedly 'safe' for women carriage.
I've travelled a lot of places and not been groped (I have been groped in the Uk) elsewhere.

India definitely has a rape problem, I'm not sure I will ever go back there and that is part of the reason.
We all know the UK definitely does too.
I'm not sure what the answer is, men seem to hate us whatever we do.

Forgot to say, I am BAME and could pass as Indian heritage when I'm in India as I tend to dress like a local rather than a westerner (I don't have my knees out) but people can see I am privileged because of how I look/dress even though I am dressing modestly etc.

I can see why poorer men are angry when they see a 'worthless' women having a privileged life, especially as I am not always obviously accompanied by a man.
I don't think anger justifies rape. But somehow women are paying the price.

I was raped in the UK by a posh twat after having drinks with him. He was privately educated and born and bread upper class. My takeaway is the majority of men will rape if they think they can get away with it- third world country or not. Misogyny is widespread all over the world

My takeaway is the majority of men will rape if they think they can get away with it- third world country or no

I suspect that is true.

which explains why the rape stats quite above are only part of the picture.

if judges don’t jail rapists
if jurors don’t convict rapists
if police don’t investigate rapists
If society doesn’t condemn rapists

then women won’t report rapists - and who could blame then.

I’ve prosecuted and defended rape cases. There are no circumstances in which I would report my own rape.
There are very few circumstances in which I’d advise my daughters to report a rape.

My takeaway is the majority of men will rape if they think they can get away with it- third world country or no.

I've lived in a developing country where there were very few human rights and endemic corruption. Foreigners from rich, developed countries took advantage of it. Morality and upbringing goes out of the window when you can get away with something, it seems.

Some men seem to get sexual enjoyment out of hurting and degrading women, unfortunately.

Why is that?

Why would I not report a rape?

because I have no confidence in the system providing me with the justice of a conviction and suitable punishment.

i would not want to be re traumatised by giving evidence, of being once more vulnerable in front of my attacker, or the returning of a not guilty verdict. I would want to try and put the matter behind me and recover and the delays in the justice system would mean a trial would be drawn out and unpleasant.

I wouldn’t do it.

I didn't report either my rape when I was 19 or my sexual assault/molestation when I was 13. For the reason that I thought no one would believe me (my own family didn't).

I feel similarly despite not having your knowledge, I’d find another way to have justice.

From a BBC article today, related to the brutal rape and murder of the trainee doctor in India: "Violence against women is a major issue in India - an average of 90 rapes a day were reported in 2022, according to government data."

90 rapes A DAY. And those are only the ones reported. It beggars belief, honestly how unsafe women are.

@ConservationLie

Fyi, in the UK which has a justice system that is imperfect but better than India's, only 1 in 100 rapes were reported to the police in 2021 and resulted in a charge. 5 in 6 women who are raped don’t report it and the same is true for 4 in 5 men.

Now, the justice system in India is worse by a long way than in the UK, it seems (link below, Statista and the OECD library). Redress via the courts doesn't exist, less than in the UK.

The delivery of justice to the people of India is absent. [somewhat shocking statement, but not mine]

So it seems very clear that if 1 in 100 rapes are not reported in the UK, which has a better functioning justice system and more value for women than many areas of India (although misogyny is still rife), then in India the number of rapes reported and someone charged must be significantly lower.

Happy to help - it did only take 5 minutes looking to find this out. Strange that someone who values logic and evidence didn't bother to do that, rather than posting for pages here. Do you have an agenda, by any chance?

https://criminalinjurieshelpline.co.uk/blog/sexual-assault-data-stats/

https://www.statista.com/topics/7601/indian-justice-system/#topicOverview compared to https://www.statista.com/topics/6150/criminal-justice-system-in-the-uk/#statisticChapter

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/4c72add3-en.pdf?expires=1724245824&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=3B2570B2E4A43F7A540E0CEEB35D7954

Honestly, it's how they bring up their boys. They treated like kings who can have anything they want and don't understand the word no. Girls however must know their place. If something happens to them, they must have done something wrong to entice man.

I started a thread about what to do about VAWAG. Hardly anyone responded. No one cares.

It felt like they had an agenda

I mean, this is the introduction to an investigation, not the results and conclusion

I have no agenda, I was surprised myself that the statistics are as they are. it isn't just the UK which has a higher rate of rape compared with India.

I'm interested. I would be interested to see actual research/stats on this. rather than people shouting me down

but you just aren't convincing anyone that 'india has a problem with rape' moreso than many other countries, with anything that has been posted.

it seems though that isn't important in this conversation, so I will bow out for good this time

I've never seen that. What I've seen is couples dancing around a tree. The woman wearing a saari, but showing her hair.

I visited India in 2007, haven't been since.i am of Indian background but born & raised in UK. I went with my family which included my 3 sons at the time all between the ages of 8 and 15 at the time. When we met people there, family, their friends etc they saw that I had 'produced' 3 sons , and they were like 'WOW' ....congratulations! I was being heralded for having 3 sons! I still remember it. The message of course was ......boys are smooch more valuable than girls

Almost got special treatment b/c of it, felt VERY uncomfortable

A UN study concluded it is the worst country in the world to be a woman - and let's face it there is a lot of very stiff competition for that label. Traditional attitudes that males are far more valuable than female people (evidenced by huge demand for prenatal scans and abortions if the fetus is female; also by female infanticide), And as elsewhere in the world, female advancement unleashes a backlash from men. In India that might be exacerbated by class or caste issues. Btw OP and all, forget being sensitive to cultural issues! Who cares? These things are plain evils and must be called out and tackled.

@ConservationLie aaaannnndd the links provided didn't convince you? You know, actual results of independent investigators, as opposed to just Mumsnet?

If you decide you want to put your hands over your eyes, your fingers in your ears and go la la la la then no of course you won't see or hear any evidence.

Al Jazeera, no girl born in three months in 132 villages. If you really think that's a coincidence, I have a really big statue in New York to sell you. If you think that despising girls has nothing to do with rapes carried out, I have something big, white and hanging in the sky to sell you.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/7/23/india-probes-as-no-girl-is-born-in-three-months-in-132-villages

Deniers and condoners of rape like you are scum.