If you can work you should... But why?

[Tryingtokeepgoing]

So, Rachel Reeves is of the opinion that if you can work you should. However, there are millions of us in the 50+ bracket who can work, but don't need or want to work. We are financially self sufficent, happily (ish) paying tax and spending money supporting the services economy on which so much of the country depends. Why should we work? Altruistically, I see my choice not to work as creating opportunities for progression for others...

Why should we work?
What is achieved by encouraging us to work?
If there are benefits to us working, how can she incentivise us to do so?

caveat - I am not a fan of the Telegraph, but it is a direct quote

“If you can work, you should work,” she said after official figures showed worklessness in Britain rose to its highest level in more than a decade.

The big problem is NIC. Over the years it was increased because successive governments promised not to increase income tax. NIC is only a tax on workers. So it's workers who've borne the brunt of "tax" rises for the past 20-30 years. Hence why the Tories started to reduce NIC, to reduce the tax burden on workers. What they failed to do was a corresponding rise in income tax (in fact Rishi did propose it as Chancellor but it never happened). Now Labour said there'd be no income tax rise, so we're stuck with it for the next 4/5 years again.

It's all well and good people retiring early and living on pensions/savings, but they're not paying NIC, so not putting enough back into the pot to pay for public sector spending and benefits, even if their pensions are as high as the wages they're replacing, they're saving the NIC and the Treasury is losing that NIC.

Likewise with part timers and low wage earners who have been taken out of paying NIC by the successive increases in the earnings threshold for NIC.

NIC needs scrapping and income tax rates increased instead, but neither Tories nor Labour are brave enough to do what needs doing, so we'll continue to limp along, getting more and more in debt, watching public services crumble further.

And no NIC on pensions or interest.

@Octavia64I agree and it’s not so long ago that we were made to feel guilty taking jobs that could be done by younger people.

How is working in a system that undermines any concept of society, contributing to society exactly.

The point of a capitalist system is to get wealthy, not to make the world a better place.

@Helar Noone is getting a state pension in their 50s. The last women to get it at 60 would be 74 now I think. Men were always 65. And it's been creeping up since then as well. My current state pension age is 67 and 8 months when I do the checker.

The retired 50 year old will have savings and private pension, paid of mortgage etc. Although, I suppose they will spend them faster knowing they get a 12k a year boot at 67.

I know that doesn't negate the point about not enough young people to pay the state pension.

Because we have a massive skills shortage, shortages of doctors and dentists, etc. There should be encouragements for such professionals to work a few years more to help alleviate the shortages and be involved in the training process for new entrants to their professions.

@SerendipityJane

it won't be long before more people are planning for their funeral than their retirement.

And this will categorically NOT be me, if I can help it. I am just about to turn 42, I've worked since the age of 18 (non-stop apart from two small chunks of time on mat leave for my sons respectively) in demanding jobs serving the needs of wider society and protecting vulnerable people. I plan to retire on my 55th birthday and not work a day beyond. I want a second life, God willing, after the hard graft of dedicating myself professionally to years of graft and raising a family - which, by the way is also a massive contribution to society to produce and raise healthy generations who can shoulder the burden and contribute in the future. Women contribute in this way but for some reason it slips under the radar??!!! Whilst men get lauded for their career-climbing and being the CEO of this, that and the other. Women are seemingly invisible contributors in a very important way, let's not forget it.

I totally get that people should work if they are able but I believe people have to be able to see some clearance eventually to live their lives and enjoy the time they have left after their longstanding professional contributions as well. Otherwise we are just worker-bees, and where's the meaning or the wellbeing outcomes in that?

I think she may have been referring to those on benefits who are fit and able and are not actively seeking work in any case.

What caused burnout that stopped you working for 21 years?
Sounds horrific

If your pension is more that £12,700 per year, you are still paying tax.

But not enough tax to contribute to everyone’s pension & the NHS. That’s the issue, someone retiring at 55 may be self sufficient in that they are mortgage free & have enough to live on but it still affects the country’s productivity & economy. We don’t have enough working tax payers to sustain the elderly population & of course so many feel they shouldn’t have to pay towards their own care. It’s a mess tbh.

Abolishing winter fuel payments mean that a load of charities get less money

Why?

Anyway if the government wants more people to work they need to sort out age discrimination and the lack employer training. Employers say they can't get employees with the right skills, so why not train people with transferable ones?

Are you paying tax / ni to UK?

But that’s not about money.

They need to improve the working conditions of these people for them to return to work. I worked in public service. It was hell. I got out as soon as l could. And it’s all about working conditions. You can’t force someone to work if they can support themselves.

And some of the shortages are down to the last government not giving a shit.

Basically we had a pandemic. Because we had a shit government anyone in their 50’s who were more liable for serious infection got out of work. And now they don’t want to go back.

So it has to be made more attractive to return.

Well good luck with finding a job in your 50's. Even if people wanted to work, getting a job is tough if you're not a specialist or at senior level.
There's a lot of ageism around.

And this.

They can bleat all they want about not having enough workers. Try employing older people for a start.

I also think that employers offer a poor deal to many workers and hostile recruitment practices, so I don't blame people for leaving work when they can

yes this is a key thing. As Colin Newlyn says, we need to decrapify work.

It would be interesting to chart stats for how many early retirees fund their own care as well. I suspect the majority do. We have spreadsheets galore going and an FA. His view is that most people have way more money they need in retirement. Certain demographic of course, but those early retirees aren't, in general, going to be the drain you think they are.

Any 50 year old ( or 60 year old) who have given up work is doing it on their own funds

That’s not true though, so may of them are in the lower earning bracket and long term sickness is often a driver.

I could go on about this subject for hours. I’m just picking up on this point about consumerism because I planned to retire from early from when I was age 19.

So I have spent a significant amount less throughout my life because I knew that’s what I wanted.

didn’t the coalition ask us to go and spend at one point? Stuck in my mind because I was all hmmmm…no.

Lots of comments being posted as I type. I attended a seminar about people leaving the workplace after 50 and the chair ranted a lot about “duty” which meant people left early. It really was incoherent ranting.

The ones who did get a word in explained that they might be tempted back but the problem is modern working culture rather than the work itself. Unless that gets addressed, anyone who can afford it is going to be gone. Think @ArseInTheCoOpWindow hit the nail on the head there.

wanting private healthcare will be my current reason for thinking I’ll have to work past 50.

It would be interesting to chart stats for how many early retirees fund their own care as well. I suspect the majority do.

As in don’t use the NHS? I think that would be very few.

I think most employers have "on the job" training for their particular firm/industry, i.e. train drivers, police officers, firemen, accountants, architects, solicitors, actuaries, engineers, etc. There may be an element of prior learning, i.e. degree in a related subject, but most professions involve on the job training/support financed by the employer (and supplemented by the new apprenticeship scheme funding etc).

What employers are complaining most about are applicants without "basic" skills which would normally be taught in schools, such as literacy, numeracy, arriving on time, reliability, human interactions, etc.

In my profession, when an employer wants a fully qualified/experienced accountant, they'll pay much higher wages for one, whereas most firms will taken on school leaver apprentices or graduates without accountancy experience and provide the with on the job training and study/exam support, but only for those with good basic skills - they're not going to take on someone who's illiterate and innumerate and teach them how to read and write!

I do feel that schools/colleges need to do more to produce school/college leavers who are actually "ready for work" in terms of numeracy, literacy and other life skills.

Do you think all retirees stay in the UK or something?

Thank you.

Work culture is such a hostile hard environment. Why would you bother if you can afford not to?

The application process is bad enough. Then interviews, then probation, the performance and sickness management. Why do we need all this? It’s obviously driving people away.

This constant assumption that you should be honoured to work for x crappy company for shot money and hours. Why is this being allowed to continue.

l have high hopes of Gen z changing this toxic culture. Because that’s the problem.

Not to mention those who are living on public sector pensions, ultimately mostly funded by the taxpayer, i.e. emergency service workers who are allowed to retire early, those who have retired early on ill health grounds, etc., funded mostly by high employers contributions or unfunded governmental pension schemes.

Not to mention at the end of the day the primary purpose of work is to make shareholders wealthier.

Well they have to get a pension from somewhere and they’ve paid in for it.