If you can work you should... But why?

[Tryingtokeepgoing]

So, Rachel Reeves is of the opinion that if you can work you should. However, there are millions of us in the 50+ bracket who can work, but don't need or want to work. We are financially self sufficent, happily (ish) paying tax and spending money supporting the services economy on which so much of the country depends. Why should we work? Altruistically, I see my choice not to work as creating opportunities for progression for others...

Why should we work?
What is achieved by encouraging us to work?
If there are benefits to us working, how can she incentivise us to do so?

caveat - I am not a fan of the Telegraph, but it is a direct quote

“If you can work, you should work,” she said after official figures showed worklessness in Britain rose to its highest level in more than a decade.

Buy if you are paying tax why does it matter?

A big pension will pull in more tax than a MW job.

How would you get a ‘big pension’ if you’d been in a NMW job?

also, early retirement is often funded through ISAs with no tax on withdrawals, or at private pension age initially through 25% tax free lump sum

It's interesting as work has become not just about supporting yourself its become a moral obligation to support the welfare state and to grow the economy to the maximum of your ability.

I often feel like I am not fulfilling my duty to pay taxes and grow the economy by not working full time and at my maximum ability.

Abolishing winter fuel payments mean that a load of charities get less money. Now we are all supposed to go back to work until what age? Is anyone allowed to retire or are we supposed to work until we drop? Is she going to give charities the money to pay people who are currently volunteers because they cant be there as much if they are working and they may, being older, not have the energy to volunteer at all

There seems to be no understanding at all of how older people contribute to society. I guess she wants us all to quietly go away and die, until she gets older herself.

That was in response to someone saying everyone needed to work.

Buy if a big pension pulls in more tax than a MW job why does the person on a pension need to work?

If you aren’t working, you’re probably becoming steadily less employable over time because your skills will become out of date and unpracticed. And then if it turns out that you were over-optimistic about your finances, or things change, and you can’t drop back into your old line of work, you’ll presumably need state support. It’s unilaterally creating a risk that you’re expecting the state, and therefore everyone else, to underwrite for you.

why would you assume that means minimum wage? Ideally they’ll be looking for people to continue at the level of earning or similar. Many of those economically inactive 50+ were high earners hence being able to afford to retire early

I agree with this…but for some (although I don’t think this is why it’s been said) the social aspect of work is a good thing for long term mental health benefits

Fix the broken societal contract and people may work

Reeves putting this on individuals is ridiculous. Wealthy people pay tax on the profits they make off people that do work while not doing anything themselves. What else is a stock market there for.

I think people who are able to retire early are in a better position not to need state support than someone living hand to mouth who may get ill at any point.

if you can fund your lifestyle without working & relying on benefits then I don't see any reason to work!

You still contribute to the economy as a consumer anyway.

There was a meme a while back - and you need to remember what's funny today can come true tomorrow. Basically the gist was it won't be long before more people are planning for their funeral than their retirement.

It’s because we have a declining and aging population in the UK. The current idea of a healthy retirement has been a temporary blip and is unsustainable. A) We can’t afford the state pension for healthy 50 year olds who could live another 50 years and B)there is a general labour shortage.

The generations prior to the boomers didn’t live as long or as healthily and there were a lot more young people .

If you are taking the state pension then you are not financially independent. Your tax and NI paid for the generation above you. The current working age population are paying your pension and there aren’t enough of them to fund it.

IMO the state pension needs to be abolished and people need to save for their own retirement or keep working if healthy. If not healthy enough to work then funding should be provided through disability payments as for younger people who are unable to work.

It's an interesting change from the attitude post war that there were only so many jobs to go around and they wanted the men to have them so put effort into encouraging women back into the home (marriage bar etc)

These days it's all about the Protestant work
ethic and if you can work you should (and even if you can't you should sometimes).

Post Covid lots of people took early retirement. There's also a lot more people not working and not claiming benefits but who are not well, which does worry the government as they don't really know why this is happening. More young people ill and claiming benefits as well, although they know why this is.

50 year olds don't get a state pension?

It would be better worded "if you need to work and can - you should"

But regardless of that I think it's pretty clear that's what's meant.

Plenty of SAHP could work. But families decide they can live off one wage. No one's expecting them to work either.

I don't work and I have no financial need to. I'm 45 and have plenty of income and investment gains from savings made from earnings. I claim some non-means tested benefits but I'm not reliant on them and would still be able to claim even if I worked, so that's not really relevant. I don't enjoy working and I have a wide range of interests that I do during weekday daytimes, and 2 young dc, so I wouldn't be interested in returning to work and no incentives would persuade me to.

It makes sense to me that what I do is not in the best interests of the country - it doesn't add to productivity and I'm not paying NI, and minimal income tax. The migrants who come to do the work that I could be doing, are still using up resources like school places and GP appointments, even if they contribute taxes. But I do what is best for me and my family, not out of duty to the country.

However I think the stats in the article are flawed because their measure of foreign economically inactive people seems to be defined as those who were born abroad - I was born abroad myself but I came to live in the UK aged one year, and I am a British citizen and I see myself as very much British.

I also think that employers offer a poor deal to many workers and hostile recruitment practices, so I don't blame people for leaving work when they can.

But you must be working to be paying NIC, so no problem for you.

No reason to work if you can financially support yourself and don't need to.

But, if you are in that position, then it is hypocritical to not accept that immigrants will need to come to the country to do jobs that need to be done.

We don't pay state pension to 50 year olds
Private Pension funds tend not to pay pensions to those people either

Any 50 year old ( or 60 year old) who have given up work is doing it on their own funds

To get people into work who can afford not to ...

they need to be healthy - better NHS

They need to have the energy which means better social care for their elders

And they need to want to

Given I think the current economic model is badly flawed, wealth distribution is crap, and the capitalist system destroying the planet and likely to have huge negative impacts on my children's future

I dont want to prop up the system

You only have one life
Very few people get to do a job they love and find fulfilling

( not left work yet but I really hope to do so as soon as I can pay my way )

Oh and given how climate changed caused by the rich west is screwing the less well off counties first I am happy to be giving some of the most badly affected people jobs in this country

Pretty much this

I believe that everyone should contribute, economically and socially, to society, and for most people that means working. If you are financially able to not work and still spend then I think that’s ok. Personally I think you should also do some kind of volunteering as well as long as you are able.

Society works better when we all have skin in the game.

Surely you know the meaning behind. Normal people can be financially self sufficient only they work. It doesn't mean you must work even though you have a lot of savings in your bank account to live without government support or have a huge inheritance. I wonder how someone can be financially self sufficient otherwise.

One of the problems is work conditions are now so shit. Who wants to be performance and sickness managed every second?

People can’t be sick
Every drop of blood is wrung out of them
They are expected to perform at 100% all the time
Old people get fired for being old.

Who wants to work in those environments?