Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

Because it's nice for people with allergies to be able to eat out, just the same as everyone else.

It’s a tragic death. However, someone with such a severe allergy shouldn’t really expect absolute safety ordering from a chain coffee shop. The mother was irresponsible

There are also so many points in the chain of production that could go wrong- server error, using the wrong milk, someone picking up the wrong container, cross-contamination. Basically they cannot ever guarantee milk free and it is on Costa the organization to make that clear, and not individual servers, who, if they make 99 drinks just fine, will make one slightly wrongly.

I mean I make drinks wrongly in my own kitchen when tired or put in the wrong milk (we have three types!) so the chances of this happening out in a cafe is huge.

There was a thread here recently on food allergies.

someone with Coeliac disease actually stated that the consequences of someone coeliac eating gluten would be worse than someone with a dairy allergy eating dairy.

in response to a poster with a dairy and gluten allergic child who found gluten easier to manage eating out as it was often labelled, dairy not.

i’ve just seen a facebook reel where someone called a child with a peanut allergy “pampered” as the plane they were on announced it was a nut free flight.

that is how uneducated people are around food allergies. Even people with their own foods the must avoid don’t understand other issues.

SHE CLEARLY DIDN'T HAVE AN EPI-PEN BECAUSE SHE HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED A SEVERE ALLERGIC REACTION BEFORE. And presumably she and her mum weren't anticipating such a severe reaction as she went on to experience.

How many people have to post the same comment before it gets read ffs.

so people will food allergies should stay at home? Not go to school? To work? Never play in the playground? Travel? Visit friends?

I'm a teacher. Schools would never not allow a child to have their own epipen. Children are required to have their epipen with them at all times unless they are too young to be responsible for them, in which case the school office will have it. It really is important for kids to have their own epipens on them as schools are big places - in my school, if a child had an allergic reaction in the canteen it could take 15 minutes for someone to run to the school office, get the epipen and come back. That would be enough time for the child to die. That's why they must have them on their person.

Some - not all - schools carry generic spares. It is not a requirement to do so. My school doesn't - the only spares we have are ones given to us by parents who feel safer us having one alongside the one their child carries with them.

@mids2019

not read the full thread but my daughter has a milk allergy. When in Costa they refuse to serve her the hot chocolate as it’s a may contain. Our local always get the allergen book out for us. They also use the same milk frother and wipe it with a cloth. Huge cross contamination risk there.

obviously she some how ended up with the wrong drink but costa alone (and many places) is a huge cross contamination risk.

We have learned our safe places and I assume Costa was one for them.

Not necessarily.

For there to be a tortious claim, Costa must have been shown to breach their duty of care. They trained the staff member, had an allergen book available for staff to show...

I’ll front load this by saying that I’ve had an anaphylactic allergy to nuts since I was 2. Before epi-pens were a thing and before there was even a generic awareness in restaurants and cafes. I still grew up eating out pretty regularly and do so even more now. I have only had an allergic reaction in restaurants twice and both of those were abroad where there was a language barrier at play.

It is terrifying and awful that this poor girl died. Awful. It’s a horrendous way to die and I can absolutely imagine the terror that child must have felt.

Allergies shouldn’t stop you from doing what you would like to do, BUT you need to manage your risk. That’s no one’s responsibility but yours. I won’t critique this situation directly because a child is dead and I don’t know the details. Allergic reactions can get worse over time so perhaps they were massively caught out with an unexpected huge reaction. I don’t know, but I manage my allergy by…

• always having two epi pens on me. All the time. No exceptions.
• making sure the people I’m with are aware and know what they’d need to do.
• being sensible about where I eat out. I have a nut allergy so I’d be ill advised to eat in a Thai restaurant or a patisserie.
• taking the approach that is a cafe has one or two items with nuts on the menu then they can probably take reasonable steps through good hygiene to keep me safe. Whereas if a place has lots of nuts on the menu then the risk is much harder for them to manage and I should go elsewhere.
• accepting that I don’t have to eat out at all. It’s a luxury and a pleasure that is usually quite avoidable and therefore choosing to do it is taking on personal risk. It’s my choice to put myself in that situation therefore I would never sue if something did happen.

My view is that the Costa worker made a mistake. One with terrible consequences that will most likely haunt them. They will probably lose their job for not following the correct procedures. That’s a reasonable response. I don’t think they should face criminal prosecution for a mistake. I don’t think the girl should have been drinking hot chocolate from a cafe which uses milk in most drinks it makes. That, to me, is too risky and in this case very sadly it was. At the point where the mum was having to explain herself multiple times it should have been clear they weren’t being understood and they should have left. Terrible loss for that family.

Because it's nice for people with allergies to be able to eat out, just the same as everyone else

That's true, but only something like a vegan restaurant would be suitable for someone with a very severe milk allergy. Most cafes will have many many milk products, and be unable to carry out the level of cleaning required to be milk-free even if they have alternative milk products.

I’ve seen people with English as a first language need court proceedings and questions rewording and explaining multiple time. It’s entirely possible to be proficient enough in English to do a NMW job and not understand legal proceedings.

Firstly, who buys their kid hot chocolate en route to a dental appointment?

I don’t see how this is relevant or indicative of anything? She could have been intending to brush her teeth just before the appointment. Or even if she wasn’t, I don’t think it is fair to infer anything from it.

Wow, I didn't know that cows milk allergies could be so severe!

Or the fact that another poster saids that a ''Dentist'' had offered them an epi pen, and they refused, saying they use antihistamines instead?

Epi pens surely are given by GPs?
They were in the dentist surgery at the time the girl had the reaction.
Dentists are trained in management of allergic reactions and carry the necessary drugs and equipment because people can have allergic reactions during dental treatment. So the dentist, quite appropriately,offered to administer the EpiPen there.

You can be allergic to essentially anything

But there is dairy everywhere? All over the place in school? Ice cream spilled at playgrounds constantly. Most kids drink it - realistically unless you decide that your child is going to stay at home forever, there will be potential exposures. You minimise them, you always have your epi pen and your back up, but removing yourself from society isn’t living life.

I worked in a kitchen and we had a 5 sessions course on all that with exam. A thick book to take home. If you cause the death to someone ( let's say there was bacteria infected meat in your fridge) and all the meat was infected, then not the ordinary worker goes to jail but the owner of the business. Here the criteria is a bit different or not.....they have to get on with the Manager and Regional Manager

According to that article there is no evidence the barista couldn’t do any of those things.

It will have meant that she didn't meet the criteria to be prescribed them. You don't get to just ask for them, they're restricted as supplies run low enough as it is so they're only given to those at serious risk of anaphylaxis.

No school would (or should anyway!) ban a child from having their own epipens (always always plural) and even if they did, the mum would have brought the home set with her, been extra vigilant about the drink if she knew she didn't have the meds, and certainly wouldn't have refused the epipen at the dentist.

They clearly had no expectation that she was at risk of such a severe reaction.

Not always. Never ever presume preprepared vegan food is allergy friendly for dairy or egg allergic people.

For people talking about epipens. To be prescribed them you need to have experienced anaphylaxis, if you haven't you just have to carry antihistamines around with you.

I read in another article that her mother took her to a chemist where the pharmacist gave her an Epipen injection, but the dose was too small for the girl's age/weight so didn't work. If she had been given a more appropriate dose she would likely have survived.

A lot of things went wrong for the poor girl that day.

Anything can kill you and you can develop an allergy at any time in your life.

Ahh just read the server is the one under question not the barista (I thought they served and made the drink at first) but it does say in there that they told the mum there is milk in hot chocolate

That could backfire. Allergens are more complex and don't affect everyone.

Everyone with allergies could be kept safe by printing 'all products may contain dairy or nuts as we use these ingredients in an open food area. None of our barista drinks are suitable for people with allergies'

Then every time someone asks "is this suitable for someone with an allergy' the staff will have to reply 'no'

Some restaurants and takeaways ask people if they have any allergies when ordering & if they answer yes then they are not allowed to order or can only order prepackaged food & drink.

That would make things harder for anyone with an allergy & potentially more dangerous as they may well not declare the allergy in order to be served, especially young people under peer pressure. Teenagers are most at risk from fatal allergies