Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

That would limit you to food you have grown at home.

Putting yourself in potential danger when you know you have an allergy and don’t have an epipen is a sin itself. YES! The mistake should not have happened, and yes theoretically speaking cross contamination can happen and so will mistakes in food prepping (I’m not talking about this incident in particular) which is why people with allergies are given an epipen. You don’t take and should not take any risk if you have not got your medication with you knowing that you are high risk. You should know this as a family with allergies.

people need to take responsibility of their own actions too. Point is: The epipen could have saved her life.

Well that's fair enough. But then don't blame someone if the consequences aren't to your liking.

But again, you only get epipens prescribed if you meet certain conditions. If she didn't have epipens on her and they didn't recognise the need at the dentist then it's very likely that it was her first anaphylactic reaction.

This is a matter of common sense not training, if someone told me I had to wash the jugs for a dairy allergy I wouldn’t give them a dairy drink. Surely she realised that the actual dairy product would be worse than cross contamination of a jug?

Obviously the language barrier also plays a huge part

An allergy being diagnosed doesn’t mean you get an epipen, it depends on the type of reaction you have.

I just read in one of the articles the mother refused an Epi pen offered by a dentist that would have saved the girls life and went to the pharmacy to get antihistamines... How sad,obvously not just about the allergy but the fact she could have been saved there and then!
Sorry if this has been mentioned, 27 pages of posts is a lot to go through.

So you don’t get to go abroad on holiday? You don’t get to celebrate your 18th out with friends for a meal?

Eateries have a duty of care to state that they can or CANT ensure cross contamination. When they were explicitly warned, not once, but numerous times about the allergy, they should have said they could/couldn’t provide the service.

However, it is up to the allergy sufferer, or guardian to ensure they have precautions in place should the worst happen.

My daughter has anaphylaxis to egg and dairy. We eat out, but we choose establishments carefully and never go without TWO epi pens and antihistamines.

IMO, blame lies with both parties.

Thing is with the analogies to other lower paid jobs, they have some safeguards operationally. Lorries can’t actually drive over a certain speed etc.

There is no amount of training that stops a single person making a mistake when it’s all ‘artisan’ handmade.

They’d need a separate allergy station. Milks (oat, soya, cow etc) sit side by side at most coffee shops I’ve been to. The margin for error is massive. Surprised it doesn't happen more.

cross contamination shouldn't happen with milk in that situation. It's not airborne like other things.

Milk absolutely is airborne in a coffee shop because of the frothers. Some people with severe milk allergies can't even go into a coffee shop without reacting.

People often believe that some or all nut or peanut allergies are airborne, but actually there is growing evidence that they aren't as the protein is heavy and sticky (technical terms there, can you tell it's a long time since I was a scientist ). But contact reactions are a risk as the protein hangs around.

(But again, this case wasn't cross contamination, she was served the wrong milk after declaring an allergy which should never ever happen.)

Sorry but if my child was likely to actually die from one sip of cow's milk, I would not be trusting anyone, anywhere under any circumstances to make them a drink. Let alone a teenage employee at a coffee shop!

Second point, the only jobs where responsibility for life and death should be a factor are in the health profession. Not the Saturday girl on minimum wage serving hot chocolate or make an egg sandwiches in a fast food outlet. The whole idea is fucking bonkers.

This is so sad. But i think if my child had a serious allergy to anything, i would own that allergy myself and nothing outside the home or what I knew was ok. Some places are strict some places aren’t. They would be cross contamination in costa anyways due the high amount of dairy used .

I run a cafe. This kind of thing really stresses me out - we get coeliacs, lactose intolerant, vegan etc etc. Our place is tiny so we CANNOT guarantee nothing has cross contaminated. We can be careful when preparing food but we only have one machine for doing toasties/paninis so no good for gluten free. But some of the other stuff we offer is gluten free but again it is in the same cabinet as non gluten stuff - which we do explain to customers. But I feel if you have an allergy so severe its life threatening surely its just easier to avoid food places altogether and take your own/prepare at home. I don't think it should be put on cafe/cafe staff, there's enough going on in the world for people to stress about than pointing a finger of blame at potentially young staff members who potentially do not have a clue about allergies and are just trying to do a job. And yes its shite to have an allergy and not be able to sample the foods that others without allergies can, but surely they would be used to this and thats their life unfortunately. We get people in that bring their own rolls we add bacon for them if coeliac and we offer to make things up for lactose allergy people too - we try and be flexible but we cannot have a full gluten/lactose/nut/meat free menu. Some people are vegan - but this is more a choice than an allergy - there is a perfectly good full vegan cafe near us and that irks me when people come in and ask for all vegan food then look perplexed that we don't offer it, some items can be - but most of the time no and i think this is a niche. We make everything ourselves and pride ourselves in everything we do. This situation is awful for everyone involved - but i do agree with previous posters the onus should be on the person/parents and not risk anything!

Why not? There is very strict regulation in the food industry now to mitigate against situations like this since the Pret incident. Some places have embraced this and are spot on safe (Bill's as I've mentioned previously). Who would you blame in the event of a fatal lorry accident? The company they drove for or the driver?

Look at the mitigations in place on roads. Yes it’s still the driver who may be driving dangerously and prosecuted for doing so.

Imagine sharing a work station with multiple people. Music going, lots of background noise, difficult to understand (you/them), milk cartons next to each other. I don’t think it’s comparable at all.

Every time someone hops in a car or walks along a road they risk their lives.

Yet we still hop in the car or walk to see friends, or get our nails painted or all manner of other "unnecessary" things.

Greggs use a tablet which lists every allergen, if you ask about that product you are shown the allergens on the tablet. You are in control (the customer) they accept no responsibility as all allergens are listed and cross contamination is kept to a minimum and every thing is logged and very advanced, but this software and whole system took a year to implement . It is hard work but i think if you have a serious issue then it’s you what owns that allergy not the product/shop u are visiting. I am gluten and lactose intolerant, not serious but uncomfortable and can incapacitate me for days . I just don’t go anywhere near the stuff if I want to be ok .

Which is mum asked for the jug to be washed.

What about all the people on minimum wage in food factories, farms and supermarkets?

So you would only have food in your home that you have grown in your garden?

i totally understand what u are saying and it’s so sad but some one washing a jug without knowing how serious her allergies are can leave a lot to be desired. Also the steam wand what enters the jug would be contaminated. To put it bluntly the jug should have been a different colour completely and away from all dairy . I just wouldn’t of done it full stop it’s not worth the risk 🙁

No but food prepared at home, check all labels , if she had a serious dairy allergy then most stuff would have to be soya, oat or plant based but her mother would have known this. It’s virtually impossible to grow everything yourself, just be savvy, don’t risk it because of cross contamination

Absoluitely.
A lot needs to be done still when it comes to allergies and treatment and awareness how to handle them. Allergies and severe allergies are on the rise seemingly, restaurants need to step up.
Still, the mum refusing the Epi Pen which could have saved the girl wa probably the saddest thing for me in this case.

The thing is it's not just the jug they'll have to wash they would have to wash the spout that shoots hot air into the milk to heat it and loads of coffee places use hot chocolate powder that has milk in too. Unfortunately many places (I know where I work) can't guarantee things are 100% dairy and nut free as we use it on the premises.

Labels? How do you know labelled products are okay? Every single food item can be contaminated, in some cases suppliers know and do it to increase profit, horsemeat for example.