Conditions in a will

[Hakunatomato]

DH and I looking to get our wills done. Total estate including house and investments just under a million.

We want to leave around £10k to a niece and nephew, and BIL, who will be appointed executor we will leave £50k in recognition of having to sort out house sale etc. The rest of the estate we want to leave between a local hospice, and the dogs trust.

I have heard of people who have left very large bequests to charity, and once the charity is notified of this, they get quite brutal and put pressure on the executors to force through house sale and finalise things as quickly as possible so they can get their money, which is understandable as charities are cash strapped.

We would like to give BIL time to properly clear the house, distribute small things to people (with very low/value, apart from sentimental) and put the house on the market.

Is there any way we can instruct this to be done with no pressure from the charities and in his own time, say 6 months to a year? Has anybody written this into their will?

Either you have a good relationship with your family and give them the vast majority of money or you don't like them and give all to charity. I don't understand throwing a few breadcrumbs their way and thinking they will be grateful.

Thanks, but they are relatively small sums compared to what should be left, so I think there will be enough. And in the event that we are no longer capable of looking after ourselves, our health and welfare powers of attorney firmly decline any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment.

Why on earth would you leave the bulk of your money to charities rather than your own family?!? That would feel like a massive snub to the nieces and nephews yet you want their father to go through the hassle of sorting it all out!! Wow.

There is a property on my road that has been empty for two years. It has been left to a charity. I’m not sure if it is the family dragging their heels or the charity, however the house is getting more and more run down. Based on seeing this, I’d not personally donate a property to charity.

The house will be on 200% council tax by now, plus costs to drain it down. Seems such a waste.

Totally agree. With this. Weird!

Oh I really feel I need to defend charity legacies and legacy giving here, even though I haven’t worked in the area for over 12 years.

most charities really don’t behave badly towards estates and executors. We had a legal obligation to get the right value of the legacy - so if someone had left us a house, for example, we can’t just accept a 75% offer for a quick sale in the way someone else might choose to. We aren’t legally allowed to do that, and in fact can get in big trouble with the regulator if we do. It has to be sold for ‘market value’.

ditto if we have been left a %age share of the residuary estates, but the executors ask us to give up a share so more can go to a living relative - we are not allowed to say yes, even if we possibly want to.

for the most part, charity legacy officers were a very nice bunch and legacies in wills keep both big and small charities afloat and operating. I only came across one charity that were hard to deal with - they were always very very strict with settling disagreements and were happy to be taken to court. I really feel their actions had a huge negative impact on the sector as a whole. Even then, it wasn’t the legacy team choosing to litigate but the charities trustees.

as an aside, always take proper legal advice when writing your will - the biggest headaches come from either doing a DIY job (badly - and honestly it’s harder than you think to write a will) or from not giving the full picture to your solicitor when instructing them - not mentioning dependant relatives, people you may have promised money or legacies to, that kind of thing.

i really wouldn’t want people to think of charity legacy departments as being demanding or grabby. We had an obligation to gather in legacies correctly (which is only right - if you gave £100 during your lifetime to charity but your brother decided you’d given £20 too much so kept it for himself, you’d be pretty pissed off with him!). Legacy giving does so much good work, it really does. I can find some statistics if people are interested.

My mum died nearly three years ago and left substantial legacies to four charities, including two very well known names. The estate has been complicated and added to this HMRC have been very slow in dealing with some of the tax elements. The estate is still not finalised but we have distributed most of it and we have had no issues with 'pushy charities'. At the start we had one small issue with a charity that was slow to sign documentation but aside from that no problems. I have been co-executor with a solicitor and I do think that it has been useful a solicitor involved. So overall a good experience.

Most charities, especially larger ones, will actually subscribe to services that check all wills cleared through probate and then notify any charities listed as beneficiaries. Wills are public documents so anyone can access them (for a small fee - I think it’s normally about £5 or something, not sure if the services have a deal with the probate office).

There have been instances where executors have elected not to tell a charity and keep the money for themselves, but that never turns out well for them.

My parents made mirror wills over 30 years ago. My three children were left £10,000 each from each grandparent out of a £1.5m estate; they have had my mum’s bequest and dad is still going at 95.
However, when they made those wills their estate wasn’t worth nearly as much and £10,000 was sufficient for a house deposit. DD2 is about to buy in the south east with a £100,000 deposit 😳

I've told this story before. Childless great aunt left her estate divided equally between her nieces, nephews and God children and a small friendly local charity.

The small friendly charity were like rottweilers. Every item she possessed had to go to public auction, even small sentimental family items. They would not even countenance having items valued and exchanged for cash from the other beneficiaries. It hounded my family.

After everything was settled the charity approached the family to get us to agree a variation on the use of the bequest as my great aunt had been very specific in what it could be spent on. Due to the charity's previous behaviour we refused. The money is now pretty much useless to them.

So one of my mums friends worked for a big well known charity and she working in the accounts department and she said to me a few years ago anything that is left in a person's will to go to a charity it normally goes to all the big bosses and pays there salaries or bonuses so be careful. I'd leave a majority of it to family if I were you.

I honestly don't see how it could be a 'good experience' if it's still an ongoing issue 3 years after her death and counting...

@whereisthelifethatirecognize
I meant a good experience with the charities! A bad experience with HMRC and various other issues. But it was a complex estate and most of it has been distributed. I would dearly love it all to be wound up of course.

If i was your brother and knew you left all that money to charity instead of family I’d be pissed off. Your money I suppose…

With assets of a more than a million ( which it will be when you die ) If I was executor I would feel a bit cheated at 50k for all the hassle of dealing with the solicitors, probate, clearing the house and presumably making the funeral arrangements. It would be much fairer to split say 50 / 50 after the bequests to other family members and distribute the sizeable charitable amount amongst a dozen or so charities. Ones close to your heart and maybe local ones.

We had a relative who did this - she had millions in the bank and a house worth 1.5 million, and she left the lot divided between 3 big faceless charities. Not a penny to the relatives who loved her and cared for her. Just a note of warning, it made us view her in a different light and no-one who she named wanted to be executor (my dad did it in the end, but it’s been a big headache and he now remembers her with slight irritation rather than fondness). I think if she had left her money to the small charities that have actually helped our family, everyone would have been much happier about it. But also, she knew how much some of us were struggling - she could have left some to the next generation to give them the advantages she had in life (it was family money and she had no children herself). Instead she gave it to oxfam and similar, to pay their employees fat wages 😢 if your nieces and nephews mean so little to you then just don’t give them anything, instead of a token amount that won’t even pay their university fees or for a
house deposit. I’d be surprised if your BIL would be executor when you are giving your money to
a dog charity over his children.

£10k for family, £50k for executor and £900k+ to the dogs home ?

You are mad.

I deal with charities in probate matters all the time and never have a problem. They do like to be kept up to date but have never had anyone be rude or put any pressure on me and I have been doing this work for 6 years now.

most charities really don’t behave badly towards estates and executors. We had a legal obligation to get the right value of the legacy - so if someone had left us a house, for example, we can’t just accept a 75% offer for a quick sale in the way someone else might choose to. We aren’t legally allowed to do that, and in fact can get in big trouble with the regulator if we do. It has to be sold for ‘market value’

what happens if you can't, though? Retirement flats spring to mind, they can be a massive PITA to sell. People get to the point where you'll take anything to get rid of them while all the time the service charge bills are mounting.

I also agree that if you are going to donate to charities, whether in life or in death, donate to smaller ones where the money is more likely to be spent on the frontline instead of paying for a few seconds of a TV ad.

not addressing the will situation but just wanted to say that having worked for a large charity I absolutely would never donate a penny to them.

Very interesting post. I was executor if my mothers will and became very aware of the difference between legacies and the estate. Basically stated sums in legacies are dealt with first. After that the estate is left or divided. So it’s safer to leave legacies to charities if that what you wish but not part of the estate. And as others have mentioned the estate can be be very diminished if care home debts have to be met or has already depleted the estate. So it’s a guesstimate when you make your will. Will the amounts seem pathetically small in the cases of legacies when value of property etc has shot up? Or will the estate be less than the legacies which were supposed to be the lesser bequests? None of us have crystal balls but I think the warning of leaving parts of estate to charities is valuable advice. They can’t haggle over legacies which are quarantined and fixed ( as long as there is enough money to cover them). And being executor is hard work and takes months although it does give some control. Eg shopping around for probate.. some solicitors charge a percentage of the estate! Without being executors so many things to watch out for. I think the OP should leave legacies to the charities and the executor and have the estate shared by the family (including the BIL) . This will give the executor the time he wants without interference.

Is this why charities help arrange/write a will for free?

Absolutely yes

I too agree that ‘Charities’ are often awfully ‘Corporate’ in their anxiety to secure assets left in a will. I would actually say they often act in ways someone’s workplace would not contemplate; the taking a % of every personal asset is case in point.
Agree with other posters you should give to charity whilst living.
It’s your money, but I personally can’t understand not leaving the bulk of your inheritance to family and friends.

My GAunt had a percentage of residue going to Cats Protection. So basically items were willed in a separate document, we had first pick of remaining items then assets were sold. Only then did the Cats get a percentage. I believe any residual house contents were given directly to Cats Protection for their charity shops.