Why is uniform for secondary school so formal and strict?

[Soubriquet]

I mean why do they HAVE to wear a blazer unless a teacher says it’s ok to take it off. Why do they HAVE to wear a tie when most primary schools don’t.

Why does it HAVE to be a particular brand, especially with the COL crisis that’s happening.

My dd is going into secondary school and she’s moving from a primary school who were fairly flexible for uniform to one who is strict. I mean one skirt is £20 on its own! Madness

People argue it’s to prepare for the working world, but even adults in the working world have more flexibility

Because teenagers are defiant and if you give an inch, they'll take a mile.

They are supposed to make an effort to keep costs down, I think there is a law about it.

However, I'm with you OP. I think it's just something to cause friction between staff and the kids. Fine, have a clothing policy, but strict uniform? Policing it is a waste of learning time imo.

I don't know. Mine have been to various secondary schools with various uniforms over the years and I must say, the behaviour in the 'faded sweatshirt and polo top' school was by far the friendliest, even if the kids looked a bit scruffy.

It's bullshit mostly. Look at countries like Norway where there is no uniform. Their teenagers regularly perform one of the best in Europe.

Some schools in my city have polo, sweatshirt and trainers as uniform but my kids went to a blazer and shoes that can be polished school. I have heard people in rl say that they like the blazer/tie look as it’s smart like grammars and private school but I agree that they are archaic in this day and age.

But £20 isn't actually that much for a piece of clothing they will wear X times in a year.

Blazers kept on otherwise they lose them and generally use them as their pencil cases.

Mostly because you have to give both teens and parents something to get riled up at that's unimportant and let the teachers get on with educating.

If the uniform list is less prescriptive people take the Mick and you end up with all sorts being worn which for practical subjects like science and technology can have safety repercussions, like students wearing black canvas Vans or ballet style shoes as schools shoes and then dropping a load of masses or boiling water on them in science.

What sort of school, do they insist on a school shop? Most are flexible as long as the colours and style are the same. I think ties are too much but having a uniform makes everyone equal and sets a standard.

Because British teenagers are apparently a different species from French, German, Danish, Italian, American <insert just about every other country here> teenagers and don't know how to get dressed.

Or because headteachers can't actually fix the underlying problems afflicting their school (chaotic homes, feckless parents, lack of aspiration, suspicion of authority, anti-intellectualism, poverty) and think that the sticking plaster of uniform will help.

Blazers are useful.
Some schools are more strict than others.
Strict schools say kids get used to it and then time isn't wasted on forgotten pens or skirts that don't cover underwear.
I think moderation in all things and wouldn't have liked a mega strict school.

See, my Scandinavian friends think that's part of the problem. We expect defiance of rules and we distrust our children. (The context was a daughter with health issues: school thought she would deliberately use this to avoid lessons, parents thought the school should trust the child to know her own body.)

I think having a specific skirt as uniform is probably to stop there being a million variations of skirt style/length being worn and making the uniform, more uniform

Because they are being taught to follow orders and conform.

I suspect a lot of schools mostly academies get a kickback from the suppliers.

I really object to compulsory uniform that comes from a specific shop. DD had to have a skirt from the school supplier £25/each , DS could get trousers from M and S (£15 for 2 pairs) .
Another school nearby has blazers at £110 each and skirts are £40 each!!

It's a mystery I will never understand and it can actually restrict a child's education (for example some parents will purposely not apply for a place at a particular school if the uniform is too expensive and too strict).

because they don't think their kids will thrive in an environment where strict uniform policy is a priority? One of mine certainly wouldn't.

Actually I think I misread your post sorry!! We are in agreement.

It's useless coming up with data or anecdotes from other countries without uniform (i.e. the majority) and with better educational outcomes than the UK. The blazer-and-tie fetishists basically won't believe you, or will use the fact that some kids dress a bit inappropriately on mufti day to infer that they will all be dressed like furries at all times if uniform was done away with.

@Spinet my daughter DEFINITELY couldn't cope with a strict and formal uniform.
Thankfully she is now at a SEN school where they don't have to wear the uniform if they don't want to.
She wears trackies and t-shirts.
But of course getting a place at a SEN school was a battle and 1000s of children are struggling with the formal clothes and their parents are struggling to afford it.
It's crap. It's really is 🙁

Why does it HAVE to be a particular brand, especially with the COL crisis that’s happening

Teacher here. We had to ban non-school jackets because students were coming in wearing ridiculously priced branded coats that were getting robbed / going missing. Non-uniform days are horrendous with the competition and inappropriate dress.

However I agree with your sentiment of the formal uniform. We've changed ours to be more reflective of modern fashion, skirt / trousers still exist but we have poloshirt and half zips now. Much more comfortable for the students!

Because they need to learn discipline, and acceptance that rules have to be followed.
To avoid bullying of kids who can't follow fashion.
So they don't have to think about what they're wearing, and can concentrate on learning.
They also need to hear their parents back up the school rules 100%.

So a skirt is £20? Big deal. They only need 2 or 3, and they are covered for the entire year. If you weren't buying uniform, they'd still need clothes to be bought, so I just don't understand why people object to what always sound like fairly cheap uniform prices

They also need to hear their parents back up the school rules 100%

I value the relationship I have with my kids far too much to pretend to care about something that I just don't. That relationship is literally the only tool I have to control them in these wobbly teen years. I tell them they have to do it because it's a rule but I don't pretend to think it's a good rule. Just that sometimes it's easier to roll your eyes and follow the rule than get into a big row about it.

None of this is why we have uniform.

We have it because it is a British cultural obsession.

European countries don't have it, with no additional discipline, rule-following or bullying problems - and in fact in many countries there are fewer issues of this type.

That's horrendous!
DD is going to a private school for the last two years of secondary and I was amazed that the uniform is much cheaper than the comprehensive she's leaving (we're moving and couldn't get a school place nearby). Blazer is £30 and everything else is <£15, the skirts are £5.99!