Why is uniform for secondary school so formal and strict?

[Soubriquet]

I mean why do they HAVE to wear a blazer unless a teacher says it’s ok to take it off. Why do they HAVE to wear a tie when most primary schools don’t.

Why does it HAVE to be a particular brand, especially with the COL crisis that’s happening.

My dd is going into secondary school and she’s moving from a primary school who were fairly flexible for uniform to one who is strict. I mean one skirt is £20 on its own! Madness

People argue it’s to prepare for the working world, but even adults in the working world have more flexibility

I don’t think school uniform is necessary at all. I’ve worked in schools with and without uniform, and it makes no difference to discipline, community or anything else.
It just gives staff something else to have to enforce, with no benefit at all. Personally I think the fewer rules that exist, the more children are likely to become independent thinkers. Forcing sweaty teenagers to wear polyester blazers on a boiling hot day just pointless and creates resentment.

Yep. Has to come from a particular shop

Among western countries, the UK and Ireland (formerly in the UK) really are outliers. Do you want to be classed alongside a repressive, imperialist state? What does that say about British culture?

Independent schools in Scandinavia that require uniform are apeing the British model, but are you sure you're not confusing a dress code with a uniform?
You should be aware that independent schools in Scandinavia are mainly Steiner (Waldorf) schools, religious-run schools, often wayyy out wacko religious, but also some mainstream such as RC (very few) or schools appealing to Muslim parents. In Sweden in particular, they have been accused of grade inflation, causing universities to consider entrance exams.

Because for some reason I cannot fathom schools have decided picking a battle over a uniform that doesn't represent real working life is brilliant for teaching and learning.

And yet the schools near me that have polo and sweatshirt infirm and allow plain black trainers have the best results (and behaviour!) - go figure!

It's ridiculous black trousers or shorts, plain school colour polo shirt , plain black jumper. All schools .

Who's asking for everything to be free?

I think the thing most people object to is being forced to buy from a particular shop. DD had to have a pleated skirt which cost £22. Next do a very similar one which was 2 for £22 . For parents on a budget that could make a difference. How does wearing £100+ wool blazer (as one local secondary has) make a difference to learning? They end up not looking especially smart because everyone (not unreasonably) ekes out the most wear possible out of them!!

Like @Spinet I will back my kids’ school where they are being sensible.

Where they require kids to wear ties, have an inconsistent shoe policy, make girls wear tights with skirts except when they deem it hot enough for socks, and don’t allow pupils to wear shorts, I will not back them as these rules have no sensible rationale.

Total waste of parents’ money and teachers’ time.

Because life has rules. Suck it up teenagers. It’s good preparation for life.

I would only allow one item of logoed schooling in primary a sweatshirt or jumper and in secondary a sweatshirt,or jumper or blazer plus a tie
all over items must be available in multiple stores ie ASDA not just John lewis or a supplier and only in readily available colour ie for trousers/ skirts black or grey
jumpers etc generally come in 6-8 colours
ie shirts can be white or pale blue as these are the only two available everywhere

if main colour is black/ grey and shirt white/ blue and jumpers ( black, grey, navy, royal blue, green, red or burgundy) that is 28 different permutations which is enough for any city

all PE kit everywhere should consist of PE shorts/ sports leggings or joggers in black or grey, a t shirt ( in school or house colours) a pair of none marking trainers and maybe a hoodie for when it is cold in winter no logoes at all for PE

shoes should be flat and waterproof no rules about trainers/ shoes
coat should be warm and waterproof, bag should be big enough for books,
no rules on colour at all just no offensive slogans

regardless of what parents pay for an item nothing is considered to be worth more than £100 for coats and shoes and £50 for everything else

It is true, even adults have flexibility, I think it is a matter of talking and gathering parents, holding a meeting and talking with the board of directors.

@Cottagecheeseisnotcheese I don't see the need for any logo.
Why does anyone need to know what school a child attends beyond their family and school staff.
So what's the point of a logo?

I hate the Scottish government but one good thing they've done is insist schools poverty proof uniforms.

I'm always amazed at the nonsense that goes in at English schools.

Ours is

Black trousers or skirts
Black jumper or cardigan
White shirt
Black shoes

All can be bought in supermarkets

Tie - provided by school

Blazers - only for 5th and 6th year and pre loved ones available

Only other rules is no football colours for PE.

I was embarrassed of my clothes when I was a teenager. My mum had no money and was a lone parent on benefits.

If I'd had to go to school dressed in the old crap that was in my wardrobe I would have died of embarrassment. Grateful for uniform. I guess no one thinks of that.

Despite uniform most of the secondary girls looks dreadful. So scruffy, ripped tights and skirts so short you can see their arse cheeks. Nothing formal or strict about it.

@HowIrresponsible but do you think if your mum hadn't had to spend money on uniform she could have afforded to buy you more fairly basic generic clothes?

Uniform was originally intended to be levelling. That’s needed now more than ever.

If you don’t agree with it, go somewhere else.

@MrsSkylerWhite but where? Children are entitled to an education. In England the education act of 1870 (ish?) made it free for ALL between certain ages.
Why should children be denied that because they physically cannot wear the clothes (sensory issues) or the parents literally can't afford it.

I don't think I really know anyone who works anywhere with such a strict uniform. I don't really know anyone who for example wears a blazer to work. I know several whose uniform is trousers, polo shirt and sweatshirt with company logo.

Given that children are still growing, it makes no sense to have such an expensive uniform.

No. She got uniform grants from the council which paid for a lot of it.

Our Secondary school has just changed tbe girls uniform to a skirt that costs between £28 and £35. That's because they all rolled up their plain black skirts until they resembled belts. They can wear trousers or city shorts the same as the boys though.

@Needmorelego I would tend to agree but a restriction to one item would be a massive improvement on current rules and certainly a ban on a certain skirt etc like in Scotland the rules should say something like black trousers or skirt or shorts (it generally says no jeans or leggings but actually it's not legally enforceable)
@Quisto that should not be allowed so what if girls roll waist bands they have been doing this since 1960s when my mother now 80 was in school

In Germany school uniform is actually illegal, it's a wonder anyone in Germany can read never mind get to university 😱

@HowIrresponsible that makes sense if she got a grant.
These days unfortunately grants are hard to get and frequently don't cover everything that's required 🙁

My kids went to a non uniform secondary.

Well, I say non uniform, their uniform of choice and that of their peers was trackie bottoms/shorts, tshirt and a hoodie.

It seems completely utterly bonkers to me that we KNOW that children in this country are typically not getting enough exercise, and that this is a HUGE health issue, and yet we insist on dressing them in clothes - and in particular shoes - that seem to make it as difficult as possible for them to be physically active on the way to school, at school, and after school. It's madness.

As a parent I agree.as a secondary school teacher you want as few grey areas as possible so you can teach and not spend ages tackling uniform/phones etc. In theory I don’t agree with strict policies but when I have worked in schools with strict policies it just kind of becomes a non negotiable and it feels calmer and easier somehow. So I don’t agree with the theory but in practice it seems to work

However the school I work at gives a full uniform bundle for free to new starters and has no named suppliers except for the blazer…so can get everything else from Asda