Why is uniform for secondary school so formal and strict?

[Soubriquet]

I mean why do they HAVE to wear a blazer unless a teacher says it’s ok to take it off. Why do they HAVE to wear a tie when most primary schools don’t.

Why does it HAVE to be a particular brand, especially with the COL crisis that’s happening.

My dd is going into secondary school and she’s moving from a primary school who were fairly flexible for uniform to one who is strict. I mean one skirt is £20 on its own! Madness

People argue it’s to prepare for the working world, but even adults in the working world have more flexibility

Why don't children in other countries need to learn discipline and acceptance of rules by being forced to wear weird clothes that they will never again wear at any other stage of their lives?

Parents will generally support schools 100%, if schools are being sensible. But unpopular uniform rules, or ones that are only popular with a small minority are never going to garner much support from parents. Better, to have rules that will be respected by both pupils and parents, than ones that will be disregarded by both.

Uniform doesn't replace other clothes, it is an additional expense, as children still need normal clothes for the majority of time when they are not in school.

They’re trying to force kids to be uniformly robots. It’s pathetic and they look utterly ridiculous wearing expensive ( but cheap quality) ‘business attire’ they’re trying to get the teens to ‘know their place’ and conform blindly.

I teach at a school with no uniform. Never once heard anyone being bullied for their clothes. They mostly wear Jeans and a t-shirt. And I've only ever had to speak to a student about inappropriate clothes once. Much prefer it.

Because in most schools its either a tradition or when given the option parents vote for it.

I thought most schools were going more casual now, ours have a branded polo shirt but can wear whatever bottoms.

I had a huge amount of sympathy for head teachers and teachers during covid when the government introduced new protocols almost daily or at the 11th hour and schools had to implement new rules at short notice.

However DDs school also really doubled down on school uniform ....after shops had been closed. I can't imagine why the teachers were making more work for themselves checking, and issuing punishments for black tights v navy, whether PE leggings had a reebok logo on them instead of the school logo or whether someone had a hoodie instead of a school jumper on because all the doors and windows were open.

I agree about clothing from only one supplier, one thing I would even be happy to outlaw in schools.

Why it happens is I think because of some academy chains and those who founded or lead them.

I don't mind having uniform, but the logo stuff you have to buy from a particular shop is ridiculous.

Ours need a blazer, tie, jumper, pe kit (top and bottoms and jacket. With extra rugby shirt for the boys) all with a logo.

It looks smart, yes, but at nearly £115 just to buy the logo part of the uniform, the cost is ridiculous. Then add in trousers, shirts and shoes, pe trainers and rugby boots. This is just for one child!

Because we’ve always done it and it’s an ingrained part of the culture, so Heads who step away from it are being controversial and different in the eyes of their peers and are scared to do it because they don’t want to look radical.

It’s pointless in terms of impact on learning. The EEF (the leading research body for education, in particular what works to support disadvantaged pupils to make progress) studied it and found it has no proven impact on learning or attainment, yet comes at a high cost (both financial and in terms of the amount of teacher time and energy spent policing it). In some schools, pupils lose whole days in isolation because they have the wrong type of black shoe or their hair is too short. In the bigger picture, what’s really more important?

And the argument about it being a leveller doesn’t wash, either. Kids always know who the poor kids are, and uniform does nothing to hide that. They’re the ones with grey shirts because their parents can only afford one pack which gets handed down to siblings, or trousers that are too short, or they haven’t got a pencil case or stationery. If you really want to have a uniform to try and reduce these issues, you can make it a branded hoody and let kids where whatever trousers or skirt they want and whatever shoes they want.

But we won’t scrap it, because it’s so culturally ingrained in our school system that we think the sky will fall if we do - despite the fact that most of Europe and the US don’t have uniform and their children seem to do OK at school without it.

I would much rather have no uniform as other countries seem to manage perfectly well without it. But if we do have uniform I don't see why it has to be a blazer and tie when workplaces are becoming increasingly casual. Uniform could be along the lines of Brownies or Guides uniform, or what adults who work for organisations like the Wildlife Trust or ranger services wear (polo shirt or t-shirt and fleece or sweatshirt). That would be more comfortable whilst still all looking the same. Or PE kit would do.

DD's school blazer not only has to be from just one shop - there are four houses and each house has a different colour embroidered on the school badge. This makes it harder to sell it secondhand or pass down to a sibling.

Kids always know who the poor kids are, and uniform does nothing to hide that.

@Tygertiger hard disagree. Students have little to no idea about the backgrounds of their fellow students.

I’ve worked in schools for 20 years and I assure you they do.

I'm a teacher and I can assure you the students (in my school at least) have no idea about the backgrounds of their fellow students. And we have very very varied backgrounds, from multi millionaires, to some students almost living on the streets! Some of the students coming from the poorest of backgrounds come in spotlessly clean in perfect uniforms

Also DD is very worried about having the right bag to fit in "or I will get bullied" even if they are in theory all wearing the same clothes.

Because teenagers need to learn that there are rules in life and consequences for breaking them.

Clear cut policies, which are consistently enforced, are the only way behaviour and attitudes in society will get better and not worse.

So this is based on one school? I’ve worked in several, and now work in a senior role in the LA working with children in care, and currently work with over a hundred schools with my children in them, across about 25 LAs. I’m in 3 or 4 different schools every week, doing direct work with children and training for staff. Poverty is sadly something children are bullied for - as is being in care - and uniform does nothing to prevent it. I work with a number of special schools (mostly SEMH) who either have no uniform or a very minimal policy, and there is a noticeable difference in atmosphere there. I used to be much more in favour of uniform than I am now, having hugely broadened my experience of schools.

To avoid bullying of kids who can't follow fashion

So a skirt is £20? Big deal. They only need 2 or 3, and they are covered for the entire year. If you weren't buying uniform, they'd still need clothes to be bought, so I just don't understand why people object to what always sound like fairly cheap uniform prices

So kids need to wear strict uniforms to avoid bullying of those kids who can’t follow fashion, presumably because their parents don’t have £60 to spend on jeans, but spending £60 on school skirts isn’t a big deal and their parents should just suck it up? 🤔

And your rationale behind this is that they’d be buying clothes anyway? Maybe, but there’s a big difference between £60 on school skirts and a couple of pairs of £5 leggings from Primark.

You really don’t understand why some people might object to paying for something that sounds cheap to you? Did you wear a uniform at school? If so, it doesn’t seem to have stopped the educational system from failing you, does it?

Why would you think that poor people are dirty?

And if you don’t think that kids talk to each other, or notice who has what bag, or what pencil case, or who did what during the summer holidays, or what kids head home in the direction of the local council estate while others jump into suvs, then you are beyond naive.

To avoid bullying of kids who can't follow fashion.
So they don't have to think about what they're wearing, and can concentrate on learning.

I think the reasons above do have some value. Independent schools in Scandinavia usually have uniforms- why would that be if they saw the non-uniform schools as superior?
Vast parts of the world, such as China usually implement school uniform and has successful education outcomes. The UK is not an outlier in this respect.

True - my DDs school is a polo & sweatshirt and even plain black trainers kind of school and it's really friendly, no bullying issues, good exam grades.
Wouldn't want her somewhere that feels like a prison camp

Lol.
How does it make sense to give them something ridiculously stupid to fight against and turn the school environment into a battleground that ensures adversarial relationships all around?

My kids went to school in the US and wore no uniform in high school. It was a great school with excellent outcomes for students both in terms of academics and personal progress toward maturity.

Because some people want absolutely everything to be free.

So actually, you do know the socio economic background?

It’s all about control
I am totally against uniform

Ours has no uniform and has achieved above average exam results. Non-selective state school.