Quick party wall question

[VerySweatyBetty1]

Our neighbours have given us written and verbal notice that they're taking the chimney breasts out both upstairs and downstairs on their side of the party wall. ours are still in place. Neither are used.

1930s suburban semis.

Husband has diligently contacted our mortgage lender and insurer to check if any action required, and neither is interested. Neighbour has given his own non-expert opinion that it's fine and the chimney breasts aren't load-bearing and other than a fuck load of noise (not his words), it's all hunky dory.

DH would like some reassurance from a structural engineer or some other appropriate professional that this work won't cause damage to our house.

They've given us less than what is apparently the legal 2 months' notice.

It appears that, if we want professional reassurance, we'll have to pay for it.

We don't NOT get on with them, but we're not particuarly friendly either. Both sides make a fair amount of normal living noise (perhaps us a little more) and either the other party doesn't notice or think it's just normal life. No deep friendship to ruin but we don't already hate each other and don't want to start a war. They have work to do and we want / need to be supportive, but within reason. I recall now lots of stories of this is where neighbourly relations can go very wrong.

It was my understanding that they would have to bear the cost of a surveyor and possible structural engineer if you have issues and don't want to consent without reassurance? But I think you need proper legal advice on this one. Does your buildings insurance include a legal issues helpline?

@despiteappearance well done Sherlock.

Yep, hot Friday afternoon in the office, working through my to do list.

it's simply a question. I have no beef with the neighbours and their works, my DH is dealing with it more diligently than I would and I thought I'd ask on here to help him.

That ok with you?

@despiteappearance is that your experience / expert opinion? I'm not being funny, but that's why I came on here as I wondered whose responsibility it was to get that advice. I guess it doesn't need planning permission, but presumably you have to be careful hacking away at bits of your house!

we'd rather pay for the advice than learn the hard way several years down the line. I don' t think that's unreasonable?

They need to inform you with proper notice and pay for a surveyor: https://www.gov.uk/party-walls-building-works/work-tell-your-neighbour-about

@despiteappearance they dated the letter 9 July but handed it over the fence on 19 July. They want to start work either bank holiday weekend (end August) or w/b 9 September. So, it doesn't give us long to query or get someone out to have a look.
we don't want to hold them up and be difficulty, but don't want to be rushed into something that might not be good.

Get your own party wall surveyor. Your neighbour will have to pay for it. I had to pay for my neighbours when I did an extension.

Get a good one.

@despiteappearance you're actually really goady and unpleasant. got nothing better to do? I feel sorry for you.

Have they got building regs permission? Ask the planning department if removing the chimney breast might cause you problems and if they need or have got permission. Also ask how they are going to support the external part of the chimney when they take out the breasts, it could be dangerous if they just leave the visible chimney without a support in the roof space, that would be my biggest worry.

@despiteappearance - not stressed at all. Just doing stuff.

They should have offered you to a party wall agreement, at which point you can ask for a party wall surveyor to be appointed (which they pay for).

Party wall surveyors aren't necessarily structural surveyors. They do draw up an agreement though about building noise etc, and take photos of your side of the wall to prove any damage.

I think though if you have all your chimney stack in place, there is not much risk, as it's keyed into the wall. If you're not best pals with them though I'd ask for a party wall surveyor, which will piss them off as it's a few hundred quid. Gives you protection though.

All info above is from me having issues with mine and neighbouring party walls and chimney breasts, so may be wrong on details, not a professional!

@GreenPoppy - thank you - hearing about someone else's experience is vert useful.

Not an expert, this is based on knowledge gained during our extension build when we had to serve party wall notices on our neigbours.

It sounds very much like the work will fall within the remit of the party wall act.
This gives you the right to obtain your own party wall surveyor, at your neighbours expense. The party wall surveyor will ensure that your interests are taken into account.

You say they gave you "written notice" - was this a formal notice under the party wall act? If so it should have outlined your options.

That is a very good point.

@AnotherCunningPlan - yes, i think that's right - formal notice. I need to look at the details again.

I think, at the risk of souring relations, we need to request a surveyor.

I think other houses of the same type have done this but so there is precedent but that's still not quite enough reason not to question it.

Your neighbour has a duty to serve you notice under the party wall act. They have to foot the surveyor fees for both of you if you contest their works. There is, however, no enforcement within the act, so if they plough ahead, you’d have to take legal action to stop them.
Fairly comprehensively covered here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet
Assuming you’re in England. If not, I’d google the act for your country.

Firstly, ask them to amend the date to the date they gave you the notice.
Ask for the engineers drawings, they need to support the stack. They can’t just whip out their breast willy nilly as it were!

they have to pay for a structural engineer if you dissent - although don’t you need to do so today if they have it to you on 19th? @VerySweatyBetty1

Normally there’d be a structural engineer and ridiculously sturdy brackets/lintels to support the shared stack.

Depending on your house structure and the wall itself the breast may indeed be structural. You need professional advice. It might be the case that it’s fine for them to remove the chimney breast under advice from a structural engineer but it may mean you can’t do the same in the future, as would be risk of collapse. I think you may out of time though! 14 days to reply.