Quick party wall question

[VerySweatyBetty1]

Our neighbours have given us written and verbal notice that they're taking the chimney breasts out both upstairs and downstairs on their side of the party wall. ours are still in place. Neither are used.

1930s suburban semis.

Husband has diligently contacted our mortgage lender and insurer to check if any action required, and neither is interested. Neighbour has given his own non-expert opinion that it's fine and the chimney breasts aren't load-bearing and other than a fuck load of noise (not his words), it's all hunky dory.

DH would like some reassurance from a structural engineer or some other appropriate professional that this work won't cause damage to our house.

They've given us less than what is apparently the legal 2 months' notice.

It appears that, if we want professional reassurance, we'll have to pay for it.

We don't NOT get on with them, but we're not particuarly friendly either. Both sides make a fair amount of normal living noise (perhaps us a little more) and either the other party doesn't notice or think it's just normal life. No deep friendship to ruin but we don't already hate each other and don't want to start a war. They have work to do and we want / need to be supportive, but within reason. I recall now lots of stories of this is where neighbourly relations can go very wrong.

We had a chimney breast removed a few years ago, although on an outside wall. It didn't seem to load bearing and they took the chimney out at same time. However, definitely get advice from someone who knows more!

There's a man who deals in party wall goes to my networking group. He was telling a tale recently of the house he went to whose neighbours builder had taken out the chimney right up through the house - it was a supporting wall due to how the houses had been built and their house had bowed. He thinks they got to it just in time to put in supports before the house collapsed. No party wall documents had been handed over. Total cowboy builder apparently.

@despiteappearance we're replying today. 2 weeks since the letter was received.

me thinking DH has been diligent but he's left it till the last minute, bless him.

Building Regs are definitely needed as they can't remove the stack. Building regs will need an engineer sign off for the support needed for the stack. If your neighbour thinks he can just take down the chimney breast he's very much mistaken.

@despiteappearance - he obviously knows that. I haven't been concerning myself with it as he was dealing with it. I recall it says on the letter too but, as I say, he's been dealing. It's fine. we'll send a letter this evening to ask them to get a surveyor or whatever the wording is (I don' thave their letter to hand). All good. and enough good advice here to know we're doing the sensible thing.

The issue in your case with the 14 days is that because of the work its classed as a dispute if you don't respond rather than giving them permission to continue. And obviously that then needs declaring if you ever want to sell.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus so if we respond today to ask for a surveyor, that's ok? There's no way we wouldn't respond, just wondering (rather late in the day) the best response. Don't want to be difficult but want to be cautious.

I suspect neighbour has got builder mates in to do it. Which could be fine but he's generally very laid back and we're the opposite!

People are not understanding the 14 day notice period. If you do not respond then you are in dispute and they must serve a party wall agreement for you to sign (same thing if they did give you a party wall agreement and you did not sign it or ignored it). They should appoint a surveyor as part of this procedure, you can use this surveyor or request an independent one - and they MUST pay for it.
Removing a fire breast is a big deal and can weaken the structure.
I would not worry about having to eventually declare this dispute when you come to sell - presumably it will have been resolved by then (by your neighbours appointing a surveyor) so should not impact your sale at all.

Was just about to say this. You haven't missed the boat but are in "dispute" which means that a Party Wall Award must be prepared. You can either agree to use their surveyor or use your own - I would personally use my own.

They can't start the work until theres a Party Wall Award in place.

Just respond saying you want an independent surveyor to check things over and that he'll probably want to see the calculations for the support beam being fitted for the stack. Its polite but makes it clear you are aware of issues.

Thanks for continuing to help! What is the 14 days for then? And what's the difference between asking before or asking after that point for a surveyor?

Our issue is that we're within 14 days by the date of receipt but after it for date of letter

I think they've left it late and have their builder mates lined up but realise they haven't sorted the paperwork out in time so fudged the date of the letter. Annoying we didn't notice at the time

Its just a set timeline so that the process moves onto the next stage rather than waiting forever. Technically if you don't respond they have to involve a surveyor to deal with it.

Thought the UN rang a bell!

Thank you.

No wonder she needs the cleaner out of her office, working so hard as she is today!

OP, do you have a shared chimney? If so, certainly worth checking out. We bought a converted bungalow with dormers, chimney breast still present in lounge, but higher level has been removed. Haven't got a loft so can't see under roof space. Found out when we had a new roof recently that our half of chimney is basically suspended over nothing by neighbour's chimney. We know this isn't evident from the other side.

@Sunnyside4 I'm not sure as all blocked off on this side. The quality of the brickwork on the inside of the loft is awful though which actually now makes me worried!

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus - thanks thats v useful. I'm surprised they haven't been round to chase us then. Better get on with sending it back.

I'm wondering if they're hoping you won't realise and they can just get on with it

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus - I think that's the case. And i think they've deliberately fudged a few things, possibly not expecting us to notice / care.

Letter was dated 9 July, but not given to us until 19 July and it said work to start 9 September (exactly 2 months later) but with an additional note to say possible start of 24 August if we agree in writing.

In conversation over the garden fence a few days before getting the letter, neighbour introduced the whole thing (saying a letter would follow) and had said they were hoping to do the work over the bank holiday weekend and the following week, as they were going away on holiday and would be out of the way. I can see why this would be attractive to them but they were effectively only giving us 5 weeks' notice but dressed it up in the letters with 'wrong' dates to make it look legit.

Neighbour has basically printed out a standard letter about surveyor but didn't fill it in properly (doesn't actually give his surveyor's details - I suspect he doesn't have one). And another standard letter for us to sign to give approval for earlier start date.

So we annotated all the forms to say that the date is incorrect, and should be 19 July and said that we weren't happy to give consent for an earlier start and asked them to let us know who their surveyor is. DH dropped this round by hand with a covering letter to explain that we're in principle not against the works but need professional reassurance. The neighbour seemed a bit surprised but didn't say anything (and obvs hadn't read the letter at that point).

I believe that, as his letter said 9 July, that puts us anyway in dispute and he should have instructed his surveyor already, assuming he has one. I wonder if he is fully aware of what he should be doing and if he'll just press on regardless. And what we would do if he does.

Oh well, one thing at a time. I guess if we don't hear from him in the next few days, we can knock and ask what the progress is.