A third child has died in Southport.

[Conniebygaslight]

Incomprehensible and senseless. Absolutely devastating. 💔💔💔

So kids that behave are left to put up with those that can’t?

I read that if you're under 18 then you have to remain anonymous until a) a judge/court says that you can be named or b) you turn 18. I suppose if he hasn't been charged yet, he's not been to court, so there can't be any discussion on naming him yet...

Stop speculating. It’s harmful to the investigation. You don’t need to know the fine grain detail.

Because the alternatives are martial law or lynch mobs.

If ever there was a time to reintroduce the death penalty by special exception it would be now. There’s absolutely no question that the suspect committed these crimes. I don’t give a damn what his twisted motivations were or whatever psychiatric conditions he’s got. Attacking young innocent girls is such an utterly despicable act he deserves to die in the most painful way possible imo and anyone that had any inclination that he was capable of this sort of thing needs to get locked up too.

His name was released when he was 18.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49902038.amp

He is 17 years old and we don’t know if he is mad or bad, we don’t know anything yet. Be careful what you wish for.

Thank you. My thoughts were more geared towards facilities that have been closed down with unsuccessful 'care in the community' programmes often leading to homeless psychiatric patients wandering the streets. They are not all dangerous but even one is one too many if they are putting the public at risk.

I disagree because the exact context plays a massive role in how a tragedy like this should be processed.

If it was an incel or politically driven attack with victims chosen purely for their inability to defend themselves, then that has massive ramifications on all events which are run on a similar scale. Similar to how flight rules changed after 9/11, it would entail massive changes to security and safeguarding for all childrens events across the country, if not the world.

If it transpires that the killer was personally connected to one of the victims then it would be a domestic incident. It would still be tragic but fall into a different category of risk for the general public. The most terrifying element is the sheer randomness of the victims so it makes absolute sense to expect some answers from the media.

Many are. Every venue I've used for a playscheme or after school club has had a lockable door.

The dance classes and gym classes my kids attend all have locked doors. The church hall internal door is locked when Rainbows, Brownies and cubs are on.

It sounds though like this happened at/near pick up time so there's always going to be a vulnerable period when the door is unlocked.

A door had been opened due to the intense heat.

@FreshGas I don’t care what his problems are or how young he is. He should imo never get another chance in life after taking away those beautiful children. He will get locked up for the rest of his life because anything else would be political suicide. I’m just so angry and upset by it all I can’t imagine what those poor families are going through.

Those poor children. Their poor parents. It’s sad to think a stupid wet behind the ears 17 year old kid went and did something like this. To take away innocent lives and innocence from children who will never forget seeing this horror.

It won't help, because unless you practice emergency prodecures so often that they are ingrained into your bodily memory (like how you can walk or ride a bike without thinking about it) you will simply not be able to remember what you are supposed to do.

When we are faced with extreme terror/danger and threat of actual bodily harm we lose access to the "thinking", rational part of our brains and go only by instinct/muscle memory.

Considering the chance that your child will ever experience something like this is very, very small, and their instinctive behaviour will likely be to run to a familiar adult, run away, or hide, (which are all probably the best things they could do) it likely does more harm than good to practice it. Different for things like a fire drill which involve a large number of people leaving a building at once, where the intention is to practice the aspect of coordinating so many people and also ensure that people know what they are supposed to do if that happens for real. In a fire drill, you don't practice "what to do if your exit is blocked by fire" or how to deal with burns. It's just the evacuation aspect.

The fact that this was clearly a pre-meditated attack on young girls (women) -- means arguing diminished responsibility on the grounds of mental illness should not stand. Surely if due to mental illness you would kill indiscriminately. To arrive by taxi and target girls specifically means you know what your are doing.

It's really hard to secure a lot of places you hold groups.

We had to fight (and I think if it wasn't for the fact we paid quite a lot of money they wouldn't have given in) to be allowed to lock the internal door where we held our playscheme. The building owners (the council) didn't want any locked doors in case of fire - totally understandable - but we needed the main door to be secure.

In the end we won with a lock being fitted that could be opened from both sides so the caretaker could come in if necessary but we could lock it from the inside.

At our first inspection the inspector properly dithered and debated - the didn't like the only door on that side of the room being locked because of fire risk, but equally didn't want us having an open door.

The risk assessment is such a balance

I’m angry and upset too. Emotions are running high everywhere. All the more reason to hope for justice rather than vengeance, peace rather than more violence.

We have absolutely no idea what the motivations for this horrific crime were, and speculating doesn't get us anywhere. We may or may not find out in the fullness of time. At the moment all we can do is mourn the victims and think of / support their families and the others affected.

That said, there is some misunderstanding of psychotic episodes- people can have very specific command hallucinations, voices which tell them to carry out certain actions against certain people or groups, which would appear very much preplanned. You might not know how bad these are from observing the person. I have no more clue than anyone else if any sort of mental health played a role in what has happened in Southport (nor does it actually matter that much at the moment) but I think understanding that psychosis doesn't just mean suddenly and obviously "going crazy" is important, as is knowing that most people with psychotic illnesses don't pose a risk to others around them or need locking up.

See when I was a child the church door was kept locked during guides, which might be a reflection on the area I grew up in.

But where my kids do scouts the access to the hall is open.

This is the trouble. Your description of these low-life’s is spot on! I just don’t get how, when these darling little girls and their teachers were killed or injured, people can come on here and say dreadful things. Thankfully, the comments seem to have been taken down so I haven’t seen them, but I can imagine. it’s worrying that there are such people in the world.
My heart aches for the children and teachers who had their lives cut short and for their families who have to live with it…..for EVER,
If only something could be done to stop these atrocities. How can anyone harm an innocent child? Please, please can they stop hurting people and ruining lives.
As for Emmacc24, I hope he somehow gets his punishment for what he has said. Festering boils all over his stinking body would be a good start! Who agrees with me? I would wish worse, but it wouldn’t get past the censors here but you’ll all be thinking it, I’m sure!

Oh God!
I really really feel for the staff, because they must be gutted thinking "What if".
Just awful, absolutely awful

You don't even know if he's guilty. He may lack the required mental capacity, for example.

The day we start executing people without trial is the day we descend into barbarism.

I have no idea what the background is to this dreadful event but I've seen at least one post on MN today that advocated execution without trial for the perpetrator of these murders.

Nothing and noone would be helped by lynch law. Nothing and noone will be helped by arbitarily ripping up the M'Naghten rules that have been used in British jurisprudence for nearly 200 years, or ignoring the fact that sometimes, some people are so very mentally ill that they do terrible things because of the illness. It is rare and most people with MH issues are far, far more likely to harm themselves, but it happens and is increasingly likely to happen when MH services are no longer fit for purpose.

I do know what I'm talking about. A much loved uncle, one of the kindest and gentlest men I've ever known was paranoid schizophrenic and while off his meds and acutely unwell tried to kill my nearly 90 year old grandmother (his mother), a woman he loved and who loved him. It was a miracle that she survived. When properly medicated again he was overwhelmed by what he had done.

The perpetrator of the murders in Southport may be ill, he might not be. I've shared what I have as caution against allowing understandable rage and upset to take over and undermine things that keep society tolerably civilised.

When coming across atrocities like this, against children, whether it be one child or many who are affected, my late husband always said the same thing. Whether it was child cruelty, rape, assault, a situation like this or similar, he always said that the perpetrator should be put into a room full of mothers,
and the door shut. No recriminations, of course. It would be a far more effective punishment than a custodial sentence which comes with perks and early release. And my husband was one of the gentlest, kindest people I know.
I’m not religious but I will pray tonight for those victims and their families. I wish them strength and peace.