I don’t understand the Charlotte Dujardin furore….

[VivaLaSpag]

For transparency, I know absolutely nothing about horses but have seen this all blow up so am trying to understand the context and concern. In no way am I saying what she has done is right.

My question is, aren’t horses whipped to the finish line in horse races? If this is a routine practice then why is there such concern about what Dujardin has done?

The Guardian clip is only a 40 second fragment that cuts off before the horse tries to get away from her and she pursues him into a corner and belts him. This one is 2 mins:

For those criticising the rider, you can hear her twice protesting that she doesn't want to hurt him after Dujardin justifying what she's doing and that she "needs" to hit him "hard".

The rider sounds scared. Dujardin sounds calm and is talking through what she's doing.

It doesn't give the impression of something she's only ever done once. Unclear which part of the video she considers her "error of judgement" or "out of character".

I watched it. She was fully in control and very calmly and casually, almost carelessly whipping the horse around its rear end and legs, seemingly as a very normal practice.

She deserves all she gets.

By the way I don't approve of jockeys or any other equestrian "sport" riders whipping or mistreating horses either.

I hope it opens up a focus of this cruel mistreatment.

It’s never acceptable to whip a horse, whips are really meant to be used as a training aid.

Horses are a lot bigger than us and don’t feel things as we do. A gentle tap with a schooling whip to remind them of something isn’t going to do any harm. The same with spurs, IMO, you don’t have to dig them in but 5ft me on 17.2hh dobbin might need a (small) pair as an aid for my leg. Whips and spurs should never be replacing your aids, and should certainly never be used as a punishment.

A lunge whip should never make contact with a horse, CDJ looked like she wanted it to hurt too or she wouldn’t have felt the need to use two hands.

The most awful part is that my, and others, first thought was “I’ve seen worse”.

We’ve taken to sport too far - the amount a gadgets people ride in now is ridiculous. People don’t learn to ride anymore, they buy a gadget to do it for them. IMO, you should be able to school most horses in a snaffle alone.

Age classes should be dropped, horses shouldn’t be competing at certain levels before they’ve finished growing, etc. There’s no more slow and steady producing, it’s sad.

Horrible woman. I could only watch a little of the video. There was clearly no loss of control (not that that makes a difference) and it's very clear that this isn't the first time she's done it. It is all casual and just seems like a normal part of her day tbh

I hope this finishes her career.

Also my reaction “I’ve seen worse”.

I don’t quite get what’s she’s trying to achieve here. What exactly is she trying to get the horse to do? The horse looks pissed off and frustrated, like he doesn’t understand either.

Non-equestrian here, why is whipping acceptable in any context? To whip is a violent act, regardless of the type of whip, number of lashings etc.

It's appalling to me that jockeys are allowed to whip horses a certain amount of times before being penalised. It's as though there is an admission in that that whipping causes distress, and instead of thinking "oh that's unacceptable" they think "oh a certain amount of distress is ok".

Horse racing is regulated very differently to other equestrian sports. Practices which are considered normal in racing would not be allowed on other horse events.

You are so right! My sister has a horse she took on as a 3yo who had been pushed too hard, too far, too young. The first thing she did was turn the horse out for 3 months. Then she went right back to basics - walk, trot, canter. Little and often
Build their musculature in harmony with their growth. Horse is now 8 and happily doing advanced medium tests, winning everything in sight and is a different girl - relaxed and affectionate.

Three of those four are already banned in the UK. Greyhound racing is definitely in decline.
If you come across any hint of the illegal ones then report it.

The woman is an animal abuser. A lunging whip is very long, has an end to it, cracks, and causes huge pain. She even help it with 2 hands at one point - fucking bitxh!!
That horse was distressed.
It's the tip of the iceberg, there's no way the one and only time she did this was recorded, she's a serial abuser for sure, and those friends standing by her should be ashamed - she's only ashamed because she's been found out
This was also not her horse, the person riding it was a pupil, if that was me, I'm not violent but I'd have got off and punched her, that horse would be mentally scarred, so the pupil to me is just as bad, it's their bloody horse
I have no doubt others also use abuse to train, so this is an excellent opportunity the throw the law at this abuser and make other animal abusers realise there are cute sequences - strip her medals, fine, jail and ban her from owning animals

It's hard to make out the audio but the conversation (in part) goes:

<Trainer> "Come on <horse> get going"
<Trainer> "This <the whip> is so shit at hitting him hard!"
<Rider> “Why do you need to hurt him?”
<Trainer> “Because he’s crap, because he doesn’t know how to ….”

Then there are two voices in the background, so there were at least two witnesses.

This is not an example of someone 'losing control'.

Sadly this won't be an isolated incident, and clearly the person who videoed it has questionable morals themselves because they didn't expose it immediately when it happened.
Yes, they were so concerned about this incident that they kept it to themselves for four years before informing anyone just before the Olympics.

However unforgiveable Charlotte's behaviour was, this was very strange behaviour on their part.

To be simplistic for a moment; when you see horses do that clever thing to isolate and twitch a muscle to make a fly leave them alone, it should be clear that an animal with that level of extreme sensitivity does not need the use of a whip. Ever.

If the person filming really really honestly cared about these terrible "training methods" - no matter their age - they should have sought advice about the release of it sooner.
That's easy to say but probably not that easy to do. A teenager blowing the whistle on one of the top riders in the world is a pretty scary prospect for the young person. I don't know anything about horse riding but I do know that the toxic environment in many other sports makes it very difficult for young people and even adults to speak up about abuse - look at the relatively recent exposés in gymnastics, cycling and ballet for example.
Power imbalance makes it very hard to speak up. There are endless examples in all aspects of life where you might say "why didn't s/he just tell someone" but it really isn't that easy.
I suspect the timing isn't coincidental, but not some kind of conspiracy either. The lawyer handling the case says that the whistle-blower has been emboldened by recent other cases and I would think also probably by their own increased maturity. And the proximity of the Olympics may well be a factor. If someone has been living with this for 4 years and knew that the spotlight was about to be on the abuser again, that she'd be receiving medals, likely to become Britain's most decorated female Olympian of all time and be giving more interviews like one I saw the other night saying how wonderful her horses are, then that might have been enough to finally trigger the report.
CD is clearly the main villain of the piece here, but yes, there are probably others. I just don’t think that the person who is still a teenager and has eventually spoken up is one of them. It seems hugely unlikely that they were the only person who witnessed or knew about this behaviour and presumably at least some of whom were adults in positions of a lot more influence. If we are going to castigate people for being complicit with the abuse surely it should be those who didn't come forward at all, especially those considerably higher up the food chain than a probably terrified teenager.

I use a whip in my right hand as a replacement for my right leg (spinal injury) so I see that is fine to be used
I'm not whipping, I'm pressing the whip in or tapping as I would with my leg
Also useful for brushing off horse flies/opening gates!

This was my reaction. She seemed to be just hitting the horse for the sake of it, as there didn’t appear to be any training going on.

She's clearly doing this as part of core training, not a 'lapse of judgment' to get the horse to move its legs better, and the horse is clearly in pain.

She's a total dick and I sincerely hope that's the end of her career.

Tbh, if it was a one off temper I'd be more inclined to say suspend and carry on but this looks like how she rolls to me.

I agree, someone was out to nobble her Olympics bid, timing wise, but she brought this on herself by doing that.

Read the Guardian article. They tried and were told to shut up.

Google is your friend here... just sayin'

There's a lot of big money, big names and powerful influence behind horse racing and the horsey world in general. They make sure any criticism is shut down.

Who the fuck is the woman laughing at the whole thing in the video too?!

I hope this is the end of CDJ's career. It's not a lapse in judgement. Per a PP's audio transcription she clearly and calmly explains why she's trying to hurt the horse.

Even if that was so, it doesn't negate or excuse the content of the video. She is an animal abuser and has no place in sport or anywhere near an animal of any kind.

Yeah the person videoing doing the laughing is also sinister.

There's a very good chance that this will throw the whole sport of dressage into a bad light.

I’ve seen the video now (I think a shortened version).

Very sad to think that definitely I’ve seen worse.

This was no loss of control (inexcusable anyway, but in a dangerously napping horse, there can be times when there is a lapse of judgement. Of course, then things should be stopped to examine why the horse was napping. Very often a miscommunication or misunderstanding between horse and rider, which no amount of hitting will solve)

There was no purpose to this. The horse clearly didn’t understand- and she was doing nothing to help him understand.

This was sustained and deliberate.

The laughing in the background is shocking.

I'm not sure the person(s) laughing are necessarily the person filming or even watching.

If the mic is picking up Dujardin's voice from the far end of the arena then it's also going to pick up other voices in the vicinity who may not be involved.

At the end of the longer clip you can hear women's voices chatting about something completely irrelevant. (Middle lane hoggers or something along those lines?) They don't particularly sound like they're paying attention to what's happening in the arena.