reports of massive worldwide internet outage

[confusedaunt]

Just warning you - obviously if you are on here then it hasn't hit you hard! But I have just lost google, and my work internet connection

I'd not heard of Crowdstrike but apparently they sponsor one of the F1 teams.

@1apenny2apenny

It's all very well saying keep cash (although I do agree with this) but if the items can't be scanned do supermarkets have manuals backup procedures in place?

This is what people don't realise. Our entire city lost electric during Storm Desmond for three days. Even having cash didn't help people as most shops were closed due to lack of heating, lighting and security. Petrol stations were closed as electricity is needed to power the pumps. The city's railway station was closed as there was no electricity for the lighting (massive H&S problem), so all trains just carried on through without stopping. Buses/taxis soon stopped because they couldn't fill up with fuel.

The only shops that were open were small/independent food shops where basically the owners opened to sell their perishables before they defrosted or reached ambient temperature (fridges don't work without electric) - they were basically either remembering prices or cobbled together a hand written price list and were using calculators to add up and work out change - as, of course, the tills don't work without electric.

The electricity company brought in mobile catering vans on the third day so that people could at least get something hot to eat, even if it was a manky burger. They were also handing out packs of bottled water.

It was all very bleak, and an insight into just how ill-prepared we all are when it comes to major infrastructure problems, not just in the UK, but probably throughout the developed World. We place far too much reliance on things working and have very poor contingency plans for when things go wrong. Only a day or two ago, the Covid enquiry said basically the same. We also saw major problems at big incidents like the Manchester Arena bombing, Grenfell Tower fire, etc.

For people thinking that they'll be fine if they have a bit of cash at home - they're in for one hell of a shock - that's only a contingency for a short term requirement to buy basics (if they can find a shop open and accepting cash). Anything like a major power outage for a few days, or some catastophe, and they're in the same boat as everyone else when they find there's nowhere to spend their cash, or that the supply chain is broken and shops don't have stock to sell.

Morrisons payment system is.

It doesn’t shock most of us about how bad security can be. Or AI. Or fragile systems. It’s a plane crash crash waiting to happen, it is just going quicker than ever. It’s common knowledge to many people.

But I am sure some people will be surprised when it happens. Those people who don’t even have a couple of extra bottles of water at home, or extra food, because if something happens like a huge cyberattack it should be someone else who should fix things for you.
Where I live we’ve been instructed for years what to keep at home, not only to help ourselves in crisis but to be able to help others. In the UK people laugh at even having extra food and stuff at home just in case. And joke about loo rolls when it’s got nothing to do with that at all.

And to those of you who think you will be fine because you have some cash at home. Or a cheque book (really?). You can forget it.

But to laugh manically does sound very strange, and to claim that experts on BBC or other channels know nothing because he knows so much better.

Only if the other party will accept cheques. Most shops/businesses don't any more. Lots of businesses bank with banks which don't have any facilities for paying in cheques. The usage of cheques basically got killed off when banks stopped issuing cheque guarantee cards. Businesses, especially shops/restaurants etc won't accept them because there's no come back at all if it gets cancelled or dishonoured (i.e. no money in the account).

Couldn't agree more. Everyone should be crisis prepped. Cash, non perishable food, bottled water and crucially a long wave radio with batteries in case of a total outage - you need to be able to tune into Government announcements if you don't have access to your phone, TV, internet.

It's just basic life planning no? The Home Sec told us all to prep ourselves in this way a couple years ago and the media just laughed at him.

Urgh, I knew I shouldn't have let DH talk me into buying all Apple products. All my work systems working perfectly..

Which makes me think - why the hell would someone at Microsoft call an update “cyber strike” and why the hell that word would be embedded into that code and if the genuine MS code had errors in it then why didn’t the error hit at the time computers actually updated overnight?

1. It's a product from a company called CrowdStrike, not "cyber strike".
2. It's not from Microsoft (see above), it is affecting Microsoft systems.

I’m in Scandinavia and we have had booklets sent out to us. It’s the basics. Most people here know exactly where our nearest shelter is also. UK seem to handle it differently, it’s too bad actually.

rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/30307.pdf

I just think people are complacent. In a sense that's a good thing because it shows how peaceful, prosperous and cosseted we are as a nation. But national stability is never guaranteed no matter how much we think it is. Bad things can happen suddenly in any country. So, yes, being prepped and having a plan agreed upon with your family is key.

Goodness what overly dramatic language! I thought there was a major emergency🤣

@RedToothBrush your husband sounds absolutely lovely 🙄

husband works for Microsoft cloud and nothing to do with anything they have done

‘. Yeah it’s apparently an update that crowdstrike has pushed that has bricked windows devices, and the only way to fix it is to manually remove the new driver but that’s literally millions and millions of machines. Shows how much disruption can be caused by a single company though doesn’t it! ‘

I have just fetched DS to the farm and can’t use card machine. I naively didn’t fetch cash!

@cherrygarden

But I am sure some people will be surprised when it happens. Those people who don’t even have a couple of extra bottles of water at home, or extra food, because if something happens like a huge cyberattack it should be someone else who should fix things for you. Where I live we’ve been instructed for years what to keep at home, not only to help ourselves in crisis but to be able to help others. In the UK people laugh at even having extra food and stuff at home just in case. And joke about loo rolls when it’s got nothing to do with that at all.

It's such a shame that people simply have learned from the Covid years, the Suez blockage and more recently the Ukraine war.

We're all too reliant on "just in time", whether it's business supply chains, or a typical household who never plan more than a few days ahead with their shopping needs.

It's not just an IT thing. There were 'people who planned' and 'people who didn't' long before computers were invented.

I run a small business. It's entirely 100% computerised with full use of software for communications, client records, the work itself, etc. But I also have manual records alongside which means I can continue working and serving clients without any computers, without any electricity, etc. Barely any effort, barely any time, I just keep hand written notes/files which contain the same as the computer records/databases. Yes, if the IT system is down for any reason, it takes longer to do things manually, inevitably, as I wouldn't be using IT otherwise, but the point is that I can do it manually if and when I need to. I'm sure some people would regard the "duplication" as a massive waste of time, but for me, it's just part of the normal daily routine and so I barely notice that it takes time to keep up with manual records as well as computerised. A lot of the time, I make it simple and quick, such as just taking a photo/scan of a page of hand written notes and uploading it to the online storage, whilst the paper sits happily in the paper file - duplicated time a matter of seconds only! On the few occasions I've had to do things manually/hand written when I've had no power/IT, yes, it takes time to replicate in the IT system afterwards, but at least I could do what was needed at the time, whether a payroll so a client's staff get paid on time, or whatever.

Unfortunately, when there is poor disaster planning at governmental level, it trickles through right down through the quangos, local authorities, businesses & other organisations, etc., and right down to individuals. EVERYONE needs to wake up and smell the coffee and start to actually engage some critical thinking about disaster planning and not just rely on "someone else" to get them out of a hole when it happens!

Yes, absolutely. As I've said, such a shame that Covid, The Suez canal blockage, Ukraine war, etc., simply hasn't taught people anything about the fragility of our cosseted life.

Cash only at Greggs.
A nation mourns.

Yes I do this randomly with shops I like in the hope it stops them going cashless.

If this has a knock-on effect on supply chains, will Greggs run out of stuff? Or Gail's? (I'm not classist.)

Tate Modern website is down. Wailing and gnashing of teeth in Islington! 😂

I actually don’t think cash, wind up radio, couple of tins does much except help people feel they are in control. Yes, it’s useful for bad weather or similar but armageddon not so much!

I used to work on big projects within government. You would be shocked how many of them dont have proper back ups. They have said they will sue the company causing the outage if something like this happens completely ignoring the overall objective of keeping things going.

Saves the beancounters £££ which they can then show off to their seniors. Of course when something like this happens they are stuffed but they honestly dont really care. They will just sue Microsoft and get even more money to add to the coffers!

Quite - there are a lot of women on MN who work in the industry including specialists in cyber.

Crowdstrike is a dominant player in this market, they won't be "screwed" if proven culpable and the origin of the defective code push. They will take a financial spanking but you can't simply swap out a product set like Crowdstrike's on a whim.

Every business should have a Business Continuity Plan to cover disasters including software and hardware issues. For many in this situation it will be paper and pen for notes and updates.

Many of our clients are asking people to shut down Windows 10 laptops if they are not yet affected but most have moved onto 11 already. Its the local laptops and workstations which will take the time to remediate - the "cloud" side will be updated by Crowdstrike and/or MS once the fix is identified.

Britons should have three days' worth of tinned food and water, government says

A new website advising on what to do in an emergency is being launched as part of the government's push to ensure the UK is more resilient to threats.

https://news.sky.com/story/britons-should-have-three-days-worth-of-tinned-food-and-water-government-says-13141114#:~:text=Politics-,Britons%20should%20have%20three%20days'%20worth%20of%20tinned%20food%20and,is%20more%20resilient%20to%20threats.

Yep, luckily we are now prepared after Storm Desmond when our entire city lost electricity for three days. Especially the bit about the radio. It was our only form of communication to listen to our local radio station on an old fashioned battery radio - the radio station was also flooded but somehow managed to stay on air by their tech people cobbling together a load of extension leads from a diesel generator to power the microphones and transmission equipment, etc but otherwise were working by candle/torch light. It was the only way we knew what was happening, what services were working (virtually none), updates as to when power was likely to be restored, updates as to what to do in emergencies, the location of hot food trailers/water lorries, timing for portable generators being brought in and where, etc. They were literally a life saver.

We had nothing else at all. Landline phones were down (telephone exchange was flooded). Mobile networks were down (batteries in their masts only last a few hours and without electricity don't get recharged). It's frightening to see just how quickly the normality disappears and your life is turned upside down. It's more frightening to see just how slowly the "emergency" response turns out to be, which in our case was a full three days before telephone landlines, mobile signals and temporary diesel generators restored electricity (though with regular outages as the diesel runs out within a few hours and needs refilling!), with another week before things were actually back to normal i.e. power from the National Grid, and even then there were still outages for another week.

So yes, water, non perishable foods, loo rolls, and a battery analogue radio are all pretty much essential. But, yes, when a politician tells people to be prepared, they're ridiculed!

I start work in a supermarket at 4.. hoping our systems are back up and running by then or there will be a lot of unhappy customers to deal with!

Nothing will help in Armageddon. But that's unlikely. Short term problems ARE quite common and three days is a pretty good timescale for the authorities to start getting things sorted. Basically for the first day or two, you're on your own, even moreso if something bad happens at a weekend!

I think it's just common sense for people to ensure that they have three days' worth of supplies so that they're OK if they can't leave the house for whatever reason, whether flood, snow, power cuts, IT outages, or whatever may cause a short term problem, even just if someone becomes ill themselves.

We're all far too reliant on other people, shops being open 7 days, etc.

A bit more self reliance and preparation can't be a bad thing.