Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

AIBU: sex offender at my social gathering

288 replies

HoppyFish · 15/07/2024 18:36

Hi folks. Not sure this is the best place to post this but I value your advice. I have been going to a nice life drawing session for years. Nothing sexual about it, it's more of a social gathering, with music, a cuppa, bit of food, and drawing/painting with fellow artists. However, there's a man, in his sixties, not a professional artist, who makes me uneasy. He is always quick to befriend any young female attendees or models, and invites them to his studio or home for photoshoots (for portrait work) and possibly painting. I suppose some people would describe him as a 'creep'. He never asks males, middle-aged or older women. He also sometimes stops drawing early, moves position, and sits staring at the model (when female) as if in a trance. Now, I suppose there is nothing wrong in any of this - an amateur artist wanting to paint portraits maybe wants to specialise in young females. And maybe when staring at the model without drawing he is simply studying anatomy or light and shadow. Anyway, my uneasiness led me to do a little online research on him, and I have discovered that he was jailed for downloading indecent images and mainly videos of children, levels 1 (most serious) to 5, involving men having sex with girls, aged between 2 and 9. He was jailed for a year and spent 10 years on the register. I expect he came off the register around four years ago. I think I am the only one who knows this, and it makes me feel even more uneasy about him. But is there anything to be concerned about? All the models and attendees at the life drawing session are over eighteen. I suppose I should just let him get on with his hobby, but I can't help continuing to feel uneasy, especially when I see him swapping numbers with every new young woman who he encounters. I expect they are impressed by the 'portrait artist' wanting to paint them, but I wonder if they would be keen to pose for him if they knew what I knew, and if they knew he never seems to produce any finished paintings? Am I being unreasonable? Thanks for your time.

OP posts:
Mumofoneandone · 15/07/2024 20:10

Omlettes · 15/07/2024 20:00

@Mumofoneandone
Tricky? There is nothing tricky about it, beyond the awkwardness of telling the organiser.
Our boundaries are too weak, no wonder Tras run roughshod over us.
We want to be kind and 'reasonable' and thats what is exploited, again and again and again.
A certain kind of man views us as weak because of it, they have a point.

Tricky in the sense of how to approach the whole situation without being dismissed and the guy is allowed to carry on.....

catin8oots · 15/07/2024 20:10

Knitgoodwoman · 15/07/2024 19:58

Jesus, if I was a woman modelling naked for this class, I'd want to know one of the men in the room was JAILED for owning abuse material where men were having sex with 2-9 year old girls.

Unfortunately that's not how the world works. It's not possible to run a background check on people attending an adult art class. Don't want the risk? Don't offer to model.

fashionqueen0123 · 15/07/2024 20:11

HoppyFish · 15/07/2024 18:54

Wow, thanks for your messages so far. Plenty to think about. Just to be clear, it was downloading of images, so I believe he is a paedophile, but not a rapist. Although downloading that material obviously helps keeps that awful exploitation of children going.

Which is why people are jailed for it. Please tell the organisers and models.

SmellsLikeMiddleAgeSpirit · 15/07/2024 20:12

Yuck, how awful. Can’t believe people are defending his “right” to be there and act like a creep. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Children are videoed being raped BECAUSE human garbage like him pay to watch it. The abuse of these children is on them.
He will NEVER have done his time.

“What’s the problem?” asked one such defender. Well firstly people like him; secondly people like you.

OffMyDahlias · 15/07/2024 20:13

I wouldn’t want to be in the same rooms as him.

Also I wanted to point out that the videos he watched weren’t of “men having sex with children” raping children, abusing them but not sex. I cannot put into words how much I despise people that would contribute that kind of appalling abuse.

WildFlowerBees · 15/07/2024 20:14

I wonder if it were more commonly understood the kind of graphic content that these people watch and the awful harrowing sounds that come from these children being filmed whilst being abused in the most abhorrent way they'd be so cavalier with the 'he's served his time'

QuizzlyBears · 15/07/2024 20:14

OP, do not print out articles and distribute amongst the class. You’ll be done for harassment before anything happens with him.

Are you absolutely, 100%, no doubt certain the man in the articles you have found is him? The police won’t be interested if he’s no longer subject to registration, but it’s worth you perhaps having a chat quietly with the course leader if you’re uncomfortable or can see a safeguarding issue of any kind.

mummyrolling2014 · 15/07/2024 20:14

The fact that you were uneasy about his behaviours before you even knew about his past says something. Your gut instinct was right on this one. I get there might be an argument on the other side of 'he's done his time and how is anyone supposed to rehabilitate if they constantly get exposed by their past'. However, his actions show he hasn't rehabilitated, they were so off that it led you to research him. Also this isn't shoplifting either, this is someone who as been interested in minors having sex. It is very very rare to rehabilitate from that. He's just done 'his time' in the eyes of the law but seems by his behaviour hasn't learnt anything. Speak to the class organiser and institution first before exposing him to the rest of the class as you don't want to put yourself in trouble - especially if he found out it was you.

AngryLikeHades · 15/07/2024 20:14

Sidebeforeself · 15/07/2024 19:41

OP you wouldn’t be accusing him of anything. You are simply sharing factual information in the public domain. I would speak to the course leader, show them the evidence and ask them to keep you informed of what they intend to do. That way you are giving them a chance to act at least. Personally, in your shoes I wouldn’t feel comfortable continuing to attend those classes ,but Im not saying you should feel the same.

100% this.
As someone that has been a victim of paedophilia, just say something.
Just say what you have observed in class and what you have seen of his past online.
As alot of the people on here say about them being rehabilitated, they can't be reliably.
You have to take that into account, it's common behaviour patterns with them.

Inlaw · 15/07/2024 20:14

gokartdillydilly · 15/07/2024 19:00

My sister is in the Police. She says 'if you think it, say it'. That means report it in any way you feel comfortable to the course leader. Report report report.

That’s reassuring. Thank you.

I can see why some PPs are saying this is a bit tricky. Can you ban him from the group for a spent conviction? Is that discrimination? Which personally I would be fine with but it is a question.

I would want to do it anonymously. But if you do then how can you guarantee everyone knows?

I suppose it is all in the public domain so assume he doesn’t have a right to privacy?

Nightmare.

MotherofChaosandDestruction · 15/07/2024 20:15

catin8oots · 15/07/2024 18:48

Sounds like his conviction is now spent. And he is not on the SOR. And he isn't participating in regulated activity with children or vulnerable adults.

What's the problem?

Honestly I despair, I am a true believer in rehabilitation for prisoners but not for sex offenders or paedophiles. I don't ever truly think they will ever be rehabilitated and remain dangerous for the rest of their lives. How on earth do these men ever get off the SOR? They should be on for life.

If you cannot see what's wrong with a SO being creepy and displaying predatory behaviour with young women (barely adults) at a nude art class then I really think you need help.

EarthSight · 15/07/2024 20:20

I suppose I should just let him get on with his hobby

No you shouldn't, and with a crime like this, I wouldn't care how much jail time he'd serve. He's a danger, and you need to let the organiser know asap.

Honestly, this is why we need female-only space. They can be offenders as well, but the numbers are tiny compared to male offenders.

Willmafrockfit · 15/07/2024 20:20

he has been found out,
plenty of others who havent been found out attending such classes i would imagine

EarthSight · 15/07/2024 20:21

SmellsLikeMiddleAgeSpirit · 15/07/2024 20:12

Yuck, how awful. Can’t believe people are defending his “right” to be there and act like a creep. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Children are videoed being raped BECAUSE human garbage like him pay to watch it. The abuse of these children is on them.
He will NEVER have done his time.

“What’s the problem?” asked one such defender. Well firstly people like him; secondly people like you.

What's is interesting about people like that is that they seem to reserve more sympathy for the perpetrators, than vulnerable people or victims.

HoppyFish · 15/07/2024 20:21

Have you ever been to one?

OP posts:
wowzw · 15/07/2024 20:22

I'd be worried that he was getting to know the women so he can then get to know their daughters.

Inthedarkhere · 15/07/2024 20:22

KateDelRick · 15/07/2024 18:50

These classes seem to be magnets for these sorts of men. I know of two friends who've stopped going to life drawing classes because of the men attendees.

@KateDelRick Spot on. My friend's niece was a life model, she was 19yo. She soon realised that she was being studied in a very non-artistic way by a couple of men in the group that always tried to hang around to chat. Her instincts of self-preservation thankfully kicked in and she dropped the classes immediately. She spoke to the organisers about DBS checking class participants and was dismissed as neurotic. I think these classes are a magnet for sex offenders and warrant DBS checking.

Can't believe the "what's the problem" comment, I find that shocking.

AgileGreenSeal · 15/07/2024 20:23

Tell everyone you know about him.
Children must be protected from this kind of wickedness.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 15/07/2024 20:23

100% tell someone. This isn't a witch hunt against someone who has done their time, his behaviour was concerning before you knew his past. And now you know it isn't just some innocent quirky man, he is a sex offender and paedophile and everyone who is at risk needs to know.

Scentedjasmin · 15/07/2024 20:23

Even without knowing about his past, I would have thought that his behaviour is predatory and that, the class teacher ought to have rules to discourage people from posing privately for others in their homes due to safety. I would also be forewarning any young ladies that he is a sleaze in advance. Definitely tell the teacher.

Lwrenn · 15/07/2024 20:24

@HoppyFish someone I know avoided prison for having over 7000 including cat 1 images of child sexual abuse and he went on to download more images and still wasn't jailed. I actually can't remember if I was 7000 or 9000 images and videos but either way, a very serious peadophile.
I know all sentencing is different and situations, the bloke I knew I think they classed as quite vulnerable, certainly not as vulnerable as the babies he watched be raped, but still, getting no prison time for that still is a shock to me.
And unfortunately I've read similar things on here, which makes me wonder, did he do more than view the material? I've known people abuse children get out in less than 2 years so I'm not shocked downloading it doesn't always lead to a custodial sentence.

I'd print off what you've found as a PP suggested, let everyone see. Don't directly get involved. Too much drama for you then.

If you'd stumbled upon this by chance and he wasn't a creepy fucker, then I'd say him having a hobby and socialising may help him not to reoffend but the fact he's predatory and these women could have children he's trying to gain access to, then do what you can to make people aware.

Excellent trusting of your gut instinct!

bossybloss · 15/07/2024 20:24

catin8oots · 15/07/2024 18:48

Sounds like his conviction is now spent. And he is not on the SOR. And he isn't participating in regulated activity with children or vulnerable adults.

What's the problem?

So you would’ve happy if he befriended your 18 year old daughter?

Forthispostonlyanewname · 15/07/2024 20:24

We had a couple of related problems at my church some years ago.

  1. New member of Church, somewhat vulnerable F, brought her BF along. Somehow, I forget now, we heard that he was a convicted sex offender. As a Church it’s difficult to ban people - particularly after they have served their sentence. (He was banned from School based school events and services). So he was shadowed, engaged in conversations, taken to other areas for cups of tea, had others sitting next to him as a buffer. There were about 4 (sidespersons and wardens) of us in the know and involved. We discretely knew his every move and 99% of whom he spoke to.
  2. A slightly older M member of the congregation had behaved in a weird way with some younger girls. Said a few things, invite to Macdonalds. No evidence, no accusations or chances of assault, but we knew something had gone on. Things possibly said in innocence, but it definitely rang alarm bells. Again he was shadowed, unable to speak to younger F members of the congregation.

In both cases nothing happened on our watch. We were in an awkward situation - but had a duty of care to others, as well as the man in no.2 as he was also a vulnerable adult. No vigilanteism and no one else knew apart from we 4 and the vicar.

Both stayed a bit and moved on. Vicars chat to their colleagues and so others were pre-warned should either turn up in their churches.

This happened before there was a lot of advice available, official lines to be followed etc.

I wonder if some of our methods could be adapted for your situation?

Nottherealslimshady · 15/07/2024 20:24

I can't believe you can come OFF the sex offenders register, once a sex offender always a sex offender, there's no rehabilitation for wanking to 2 year olds getting raped.

I'd inform the organiser and everyone else that goes. I'd like to know if I was sat next to a man that goes home to wank to kids getting raped. Becuase that's what it is, you can call them "minor attracted persons" "ex sex offenders" whatever you want. It's a man that searched for videos of children being raped and abused to toss himself off to. I'd feel sick if I was one of the women he had seen naked.

YellowAsteroid · 15/07/2024 20:25

This is a serious safeguarding issue @HoppyFish particularly given his behaviour. Is there a person in charge of administration for the place where you do the class?

He sounds really creepy. And OK, he's done his prison time, but ... he's not stopped being a sexual predator from the sounds of it.