Anyone you know ever said anything to you that's made you change your opinion of them?

[TrustPenguins]

Kind of light-hearted but...

Two examples recently:

1. A friend admitted (rather sheepishly) that he voted Tory. He said it was because of Labour's intended VAT on private school fees (his children go to private school). That was his sole reason.

I feel this was selfish and he wasn't looking at the bigger picture. I've always been taught to vote with the most vulnerable person you know in mind and of what is in their best interests. I was also shocked that a good friend would vote Tory full stop!

1. Another friend said he was supporting Spain in the football last night. Apparently his Mum is Scottish and his Dad is Scouse so they've never supported England (friend is English). When England played Italy in the previous final, he was cheering on Italy. When Italy won, he was celebrating whilst his kids were crying (they were supporting England). Just seems strange to me.

Obviously anyone can vote for and support who they like but I just never expected these friends to say / do this, and rightly or wrongly, it has changed my opinion of them a bit.
Just when you think you know someone...! 🤣

Anyone got any other examples?

Female friend of mine said trans women offenders should be in women's prisons.

She's not my friend any more but for different reasons that she hasn't shared with me.

Not a great friendship loss.

Yes, for the third time, I've agreed with you that you can vote against your self-interest if you want.

What I take issue with is the moral grandstanding of 'using your vote for the most vulnerable people'. No, you're using your vote to try to bring about the society you believe will work best. You do not know what the 'most vulnerable' people in society need and you also do not know which government will best protect such people.

For example, you could believe that people of colour are more vulnerable in society, and therefore vote Labour as you think that the LP better support such people. But the tories have actually put people of colour in power, so another person could easily make the case that people of colour are better supported and protected by a tory government. You would both have the same aim, but vote completely different ways. In other words, you are not morally superior because you vote Labour. But for some reason, people who vote Labour think that they are doing it for the good of other people, protecting the "most vulnerable". It's offensively patronising and makes no sense.

We'll have to agree to differ. All the best.

Why? Can you not argue for your point of view? You believe you're morally superior to others but you can't make the case for why that is, we just have to take your word for it?

I'm sure you're a lovely person, but this is exactly why I can't take these kinds of claims of "protecting the vulnerable" seriously. There's no logic there, no argument, only 'because I say so'.

Agreed. It's a superficial approach by people who stereotype political parties using out of date information. The Labour Party is no longer much voted for by the people they used to represent (low skilled workers for example now having their wages undercut by immigration) but by a type of virtue signalling urban middle class who believe they are good and worthy people by voting Labour. The Labour Party is not going to shaft these new voters; instead they are going to enact policies that these people believe in (more immigration for example). The majority of the new Labour voters are not therefore voting against their own interests for reasons of virtue and selflessness; they only think they are.

There was a similar conversation in my office at the time, really annoyed me and I made it clear at the time.

Yeah it’s quite a big thing, not everyone feels that way in Liverpool but a lot do. As (mainly) football fans tend to travel all over the country and have taunts such as bin dippers, 96 was not enough and songs sang such as “feed the scousers” sang at them for years and years - you start to feel a bit disconnected from your own country. I think people struggle to feel unified with the rest of England when they’re taunted everywhere they visit.

Plus previous conservative governments had planned a “managed decline” of the city.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16361170.amp

Wrong.

It's his wife and I said.

You don't say "me said" you say "I said". You don't say "me went swimming", you say "I went swimming", so you wouldn't say " me and his wife went swimming" you would say "his wife and I went swimming" or "I went swimming with his wife".

If you took away the wife from the sentence it would sound dreadful saying "me went swimming".

Do they not teach grammar these days.

@Thumbelinatinylittlething I know this is a distraction but I must admit also to being puzzled that you think “me and his wife joked” is correct. Surely it has to be “His wife and I joked”, because you are the subjects in the sentence?

Yes people who don't know about proper grammar do make that assumption.

@Thumbelinatinylittlething; I do know quite a lot about grammar actually and so that’s why I’m asking. How come it’s correct in the context you used it?

I know loads about grammar - used to teach it for a living - and I agree with @Fleetheart. Here's a resource for you that should clarify why she's right and you're wrong: https://twominenglish.com/my-wife-and-i-vs-my-wife-and-me-vs-me-and-my-wife/

I don't usually like to correct people's grammar unless I'm being paid to do so, but I'm making an exception! If you think I'm wrong, please do explain.

@Thumbelinatinylittlething are you there??

Thank you taylorswift1989.
I started this conversation with @Thumbelinatinylittlething yesterday but lost the will to live and left the thread when she kept on (and on) insisting she was right! On reflection, I thought she might have been agitating deliberately. Surely no-one can be that wrong and that dogged?

Yes sorry. Just busy with life. I found your reply to the poor PP who told their original story about grammar really unpleasant actually. You were trying to cut her down and it was rather cruel. I have to go out now I'm afraid but do please continue with the grammar chat without me.

I lose respect for anyone who adds their "pronouns" at the bottom of emails.

I just pointed out the irony that 'the poor PP' was moaning that someone got arsey with her when she laughed at and embarrassed him for muddling up less and fewer, while she herself couldn't get me/I right.

Reading back through this thread I see that you have been 'busy' arguing the toss with other people about their voting habits too.

In my family we have many public sector workers, police,
NHS etc.
All required to work during the lockdown. My sister in law has an excellent well paid job in marketing - good for her. However, at a family gathering she kept singing the praises of 'good old Rishi' who have paid her furlough and enabled her to have a fabulous summer in the garden (her words) - meanwhile we had a couple of people that were thoroughly burnt out from the pandemic. My opinion changed of her as I felt that she lacked empathy for others in the room who had not had it so great.

Bloody hell! That is awful.

Absolutely agree @taylorswift1989 people can vote in any way they like including against their own immediate interests but for a society they want. What is offensive here is that people are claiming to be voting for someone else’s benefit- these “vulnerable people”. Yet often they will happily sneer at these “vulnerable people” for voting how they themselves think is in their own interests (eg reform or brexit).

vote how you like - but it’s for you not for anyone else. And you’re not any more virtuous than anyone voting differently