Why do some women despise me for not being neat?

[Tarene]

I am lots better at math and science, and even art, than I am at being neat.
I don't have a dirty, messy place, but I do have clutter on my tables. I live in a small apartment, so it's hard to find enough space at times. I also like to write books, stories and poetry, so I have lots of paper around.
This all seems to make other women despise me a lot. I was told by my oldest friend that she didn't mind my messiness, but other people would. That was even though I thought that I'd cleaned like crazy before her rare visits to me. I was dropped by her, but try to feel relieved, because she bragged a lot about her money, trips abroad, and her perfect house.
She was not the only one despising me, though.
Should I try harder to be neat? I find math and all of the other things easy. But cleaning like those people do is beyond me. I seem to get confused, and never know where to start, and so on, whenever I try to make my place a showpiece like theirs. I can do math in my head, but not cleaning!

Do men despise you as well or is it just women who are obsessed with cleanliness?

Despise is far too strong a word for what you describe. There is a tiny hint in your post of elitism, in that you think you are a superior person for having an academic outlook. I have had an academic outlook, but I'm not too good to get organised. Neatness has nothing to do with academic success. But for that matter, it's your house and your business, nobody else's.

Fucking hell, the sneery, pedantic, self congratulatory posts on this thread! Just because someone expresses themselves in a different way, everyone piles on. The OP might be ND or not have English as their first language.

OP your friend is not a truly kind one. She should be making you feel good about yourself not telling you that other women would judge you. You could do with nicer people around you.

I don't really understand OP.

How much clutter is a pile of papers if someone comes round?

Can you just pile everything into one heap and put it on your bed for the duration?

We are a paper heavy family, we get real papers, discuss stories, one tern draws comics on individual pieces of paper, i am an artist, other teen plays music, we all read, they have homework. Paper heavy. But it takes seconds to pile it all up.

Could you not do that? If it's just a bit of paper clutter.

The other fact that might help, psychologists did tests and it has been shown if you are stuck on a creative problem, can be a poem, painting, work document, computer programming, anything, that requires a creative leap, it is more effective to do something that doesn't require the same part of the brain, like washing up or hoovering or folding clothes, than taking an actual break and do nothing.

You are more likely to return to your creative problem with a solution.

So you can use domestic chores as part of the solution to creative blocks. It's what I do.

My house isn’t that clean AND I’m no good at maths, so goodness knows what friends must think about me 😮

You can't have clutter and be clean. Clutter attracts dust,hair, fur etc.

I hate clutter and I hate mess, my flat is homely because of what I have in it, my treasures from my travels on the shelves, my books in a book case. The odd ornament that I've seen and I've liked (my giant Buddha is one). The photos that mean something to me. I have the minimum I can as I like statement pieces rather than lots of bits. Too much distracts from the things that matter and makes cleaning take twice as long.

I don't need mess to make it homely. I don't live in a sterile, bland home but I do live in a clean and tidy home. Everything has a place and everything is in its place.

eta: I have an English and Classics degree amd can write poetry so does that make me special and should I be messy?

This is sound like a very cliched misogynist ‘not like other girls’ post.

Are you agreeing with my original point or the post you've quoted which is someone copying my post and adding grinning faces because they think I'm wrong?

If someone disliked me purely because I have a messy, cluttered (and not even clean!) house, then I'd say they aren't worth my time bothering with. I like seeing a home that looks lived in rather than a show home! Honestly OP I wouldn't worry about it.

That pretty much describes my home - clean and tidy, yet homely with pictures, books, photos, plants etc.

However, I dislike the defence that messy people throw out that clean and tidy people live in clinical, sterile houses. It's almost as if they are justifying their laziness.

Do you think people with tidy homes are bad at maths? It’s strange you’ve put the two together. She didn’t go off you because of your house, more likely your attitude. Not all women are the same. Plenty of men are good at maths and tidy, bad at maths and tidy, good at maths and messy etc etc.

It’s not a penis or vagina thing. Or a maths thing tbh.

I was agreeing with @MadameMassiveSalad

I came across this article this morning

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/floodrobe-laundry-adhd-ano_l_667c7757e4b017bda37b72a2

People don't hate you because you have a messy and cluttered house.

Some people don't feel comfortable around mess and clutter. It's not the same.

@RampantIvy
I hate putting clean dry laundry away but do not have ADHD.

My H is useless at being tidy but he doesn't have ADHD, same applies to the teens. But that might just be age, let's hope so.

OP if people judge your pile of papers let them, let it wash over you, people get judged for everything nowadays.

Sounds like you two parting ways isn't such a bad thing for you, now you don't need to hear about her holidays and spotless house anymore you can devote more time to writing. Is this such a bad thing?

Not sure a woman would judge a man's messy writing desk the same mind, some women can only feel better about themselves if they judge other women and feel superior. That's just life. (There are many who don't perhaps expand your friendship group to find some more like-minded women to invite round).

Prolly not despise, but less "respect" / less motivation to take you seriously because clutter/mess do have a negative association with hygiene..

Illogical to you, but as a neurodivergent person, logical to me.

They don't despise you because you are messy.

As a neurodivergent I'd suggest this is another issue related to ND.

Either it's that they are NT and find it hard communicating with an ND person generally.

Or you have ADHD/AUDHD and your friend is Autistic and mess can drive her into meltdown and make her feel deeply uncomfortable.

I suspect it's more a case of someone being critical that despising you OP. If they are critical of your home, then they are critical of your home. It's not an overall attack on your character, you don't need to defend yourself or tell us that you have other positive attributes. We all are bad at something, that's OK. Accept you are bad at cleaning and good at maths etc. Anyone who criticises you is bad at something too.

That said I firmly believe that in order to grow as an adult we need to identify what we are bad at and work twice as hard at it or outsource it or find strategies to help us become better. Being bad at cleaning isn't a good enough excuse to keep an untidy home IMO. Get someone in to help, or look up resources to help you tackle it. Work on your weakness! If you fail then try again, you can only improve.

You can.
If you have clutter thats sitting there for months, then you can assume that the floor underneath hasn't been swept and is dusty. If you have plates in the sink for days they will be smelly and mouldy. Plates on the drying rack will get greasy.
But moving clutter - the table was wiped yesterday but since then letters have built up, the floor was mopped two days ago but there is a pile of ikea flatpack there now and some children's toys from this morning. Then it is cluttered and clean.