Secondary kids in the Holidays when you're working.

[GeneralMusings]

I'm looking at a job that's prediomiantly in person. My husband works mainly in the office too.

What do your kids do over the summer holidays/holidays in general?

I think my 15 year old can get about fine but my 12 year old is quite a young 12 year old and would find lots of days at home without an adult hard.

I think post covid it seems everyone wfh and has a parent home even if they're working!

Mine do camps - sports, STEM, drama, dance, art, watersports. Then we have 2 weeks of family holiday. They take themselves to activities - walking or public transport as we're city-based. Good place to live for teens to be independent. It doesn’t cover the whole day but they are fine hanging out at home or with mates afterwards

We're right at the start of this (DS is 5 so thankfully can attend holiday club at school) but even then, we've got two weeks off and for the remaining four weeks, I will work around about 60% taking a couple of days off each week so he's not in full time childcare. DH is starting a new job right at the start of the holidays so can't help much.

Do you know if there are other people with kids in the team? We had a new hire recently who is a single parent and so I had a separate chat with her as part of the interview process about flexibility and how she could make it work for her. Ultimately, if you're a good fit for the role, employers will try to be accommodating (so long as they're decent!).

Not everywhere will let you buy extra holiday but it's worth an ask. Unpaid parental leave I believe legal has to be an option

I get the anxiety if you feel you don’t have examples in your community but honestly, it’ll work out. You could ask if the role would be possible on 4 days, but definitely not until the second stage interview making very clear this is not a dealbreaker if it’s not. At that point you can mention young teens and needing a little flexibility for a year or so until they’re a bit older etc. But not until you’re at a stage in the process that’s further along.

But honestly, everyone will adapt even if you’re full time. Past primary school they tend to start wanting you for lifts etc more than full days together, but they’re also capable of organising mates’ parents to pick them up - I give my teens friends a lift wherever they want to go if I’m off work and they don’t have a parent around to help them get where they need, and their friends parents seem to do the same for mine - they’ll tell me they’re going to X with so and so, is that OK? So perhaps you’ll find there’s more of an informal network than you think at this age.

Here's what I used to do with DD as a single parent, pre-COVID when I was full-time in the office - but I had flexibility from my employer to do drop-offs and pick-ups and then at the end of the day finish up work from home, plus 35 days annual leave so although still difficult it was not impossible:

1. Superweeks - DD absolutely loved these, they were brilliant, they go away for a week without you. Run in Easter and summer hols.
2. PGL - another one DD loved, we also did the France/Disneyland trip together and met loads of other single parent families it was brilliant.
3. Holiday clubs - sports, dance etc but we're lucky to be in a big city with lots of options.
4. Annual leave - as above I have loads of annual leave and took that!

It's a difficult age and sometimes I think they need you more than when they are younger.
I couldn't make full time work for me, I live rurally so kids unable to get anywhere by themselves, although I'm in Ireland where the secondary school kids have 13 weeks holiday!

@mynameiscalypso I don't know anyone that works there so don't know what they currently do.

From the correspondence I've had they seem to be about getting the best fit and they seem amazing work wise. I just have only worked term time in my own sector so just no experience of "normal jobs" and how it works.

When you say you spoke to the single mum... Had she a said she was a single mum/asked about policies and did you mean you were concerned she wouldn't be flexible enough or you were reassuring her. Sorry if I'm missing the obvious.

I am still wondering if I should stick to looking at pt roles for a bit longer. I expect I'd be exhausted working outside the home full time but I am aware lots of people do it and it's less tricky with bigger lids.

Do I wait til I'm hired/started work to ask questions. Or do I ask HR once I've accepted?? It would be odd to aks if they'd consider 4 days wouldn't it?

I am so excited about the potential role that once I've adjusted ans got a new routine I'd be fine it's the mental stuff about it first.

My kids won't feel like I ditched them will they??

This is tricky. We used to take 2 weeks holiday each and tag team. My 12 year olds will be left a bit this summer but they’re twins so entertain each other (one of the few pluses of twins). Dh works mostly from home and I wfh 1-2 days a week so we don’t have this issue so much but summer before last they did a sports club as it was a long summer when we didn’t go away.

If they’re home alone, set them tasks to do (fun things to achieve) so they don’t get low and spend ages on social media.

In my work we honour pre booked holidays for new starts so you just tell them you have the Oct holiday booked. They don’t need to know you are not going away!

I left my two quite a bit in the hols, they will be fine, it’s good for independence.

@Kerning 35 days annual leave!!! Where do you work???

Ive googled and can't find the annual leave for this role but again doesn't look great in an interview to be asking does It 😳.

@Firefly993 and yes this is actually what I was wondering when I posted. Whether it would just be too hard. And it's tricky as they've only got a few years left I don't have time to keep career jumping.

Around here, children just stay home alone once they hit secondary age. Some will have parents or grandparents about but mostly they go to the park, or to the beach, or take the train to the nearest big town for the cinema or McDonald's.

I never see any teens with their parents unless they're visiting on holidays.

Don't ask at interview stage.

Ask when they offer you the job.

At that point they like and want you and it's the time at which they expect candidates to get into the detail and negotiate.

Then you get to make the decision if it's for you or not.

I don't think they'd want me out with them. More for lifts and company!

My youngest loves to be doing something or taken somewhere whereas my eldest can use buses.

I feel a bit like I'm ditching them though 😳.

When do you ask the holiday entitlement? Do you just notice it when you get a contract. What about asking when you can finish...

Btw you can tell them you have two days annual leave required at oct half term they will be use to it. I started a job in July and had to say I had two weeks book in august!!

You need the money and it's a great job. Just go to the interview and ask about working hours and leave entitlements then.

You won't be working on a space station just regular business hours like millions of other people.

Why is your youngest not using buses? Not being snarky, just genuinely wondering if there’s a reason.

Everyone I know leaves their kids in the holidays once they’re secondary age.

@GeneralMusings Sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't speak to her because we were worried at all about her flexibility but because we wanted to make sure that we could offer her the flexibility that she wanted/needed to make the job work for her. It was more for reassurance for her than anything.

My kids are just a bit younger than yours and had similar holiday situations which I solved by going for a hybrid role.We both work hybrid roles and are in the office twice a week on alternate days. This way there is someone always at home for childcare & emergencies.

I don't know what your job is but the charity & voluntary sectors are good for flexible jobs.

https://www.charityjob.co.uk/jobs?workplace=hybrid&workplace=remote

Go to the interview. Do all the questions they ask & have good follow up questions about the job when they ask ‘anything else’ etc. Then if you really feel you can’t leave a first interview without asking, say ‘Could you quickly outline your flexible working policy after the probation period, please? For instance is there any scope for flexed start or finish times in school holidays - I’ve got young teens so we’re out of the full childcare years thankfully but it would be great to understand what other parents do.’

There aren't really holiday clubs for secondary age kids. Most people will leave an age 13 upwards to entertain themselves. They will arrange to meet up with friends /go to cinema and get the bus there. Do they do any sports which have summer coaching eg tennis?
Are you in an area with public transport? If so then they need to get used to using it. Do they cycle? As a teenager I cycled to my friends and to activities as my parents were at work.

You and DH could take 2 weeks in summer each but only overlap for 1 week for family holiday, so you've got 3 weeks covered. You each take a couple of days off later in holidays so that's 4 weeks covered. Remember you can also apply for unpaid parental leave.

I wouldn't ask anything about flexibility etc at the interview. If they then offer you the job that's the time to have the discussions as they've decided they want you so you're in a strong position. And by the time they've interviewed, you've been offered job and had discussions about terms and conditions, given a months notice it would be well into August so just make start date beginning September.

I'd be wary about holding out for a part time job unless you're in an industry where part time is common eg Healthcare. It's difficult to get a "quality" part time job, they are often lower paid roles. If you're really keen on this job then go for it. In a couple of years your kids will be away out with friends in the holidays and you'll be left wondering why you're there at home and passed up a good job

It’s rubbish. Mine were 12&13 last summer and I did enrol them in some holiday clubs (football), one said up to age 13 but they were the oldest by far, one said up to 15 and even then they were the oldest (though several 11/12 year olds). They’ve refused to go since.

I’d love them to go and volunteer at one of those football holiday clubs but they won’t.

I’d love to send them to PGL for a week, but they won’t go (and the younger one had to be rescued from his school residential so it’s a no for him!).

There was a holiday club for children with learning difficulties that was looking for volunteers age 14 up that I tried to persuade my older one to do, he said maybe next year.

Can 15 year olds get a job nowadays?

Mine do go to the gym, there are hours they can be there without an adult, so I’ll either drop them off or they get a bus there and I’ll give them some money for the cafe after. At least they’re out of the house.

Luckily I do still work from home about half the time, and get a lot of annual leave. I’ll try and take one day off a week as well as our actual holiday.

I don’t like leaving them for a full day (mostly because they’ll probably kill each other) but they can be left.

In the interview is where I would ask about possibility of wfh 1 or 2 days per week, also what holidays, is there any unpaid leave available, or flexibility of half days in the holidays. I think nowadays these questions at interview stage are pretty normal. I always got stuck when they asked if I had any questions, so it’s good to have some questions as they like to see how you are at engaging with the interviewer. Whenever I left my DC, I always phoned them around 1.30 pm, just to know that they were up and had had lunch, then I could relax.

Ultimate activity camps and camp Beaumont both go up to 14 if you have one near.

@FacingTheWall she's met up with friends quite a bit recently but it's always parents giving lifts to places. I don't think any of them use buses. It isnt like London where I know it's the norm for kids to get around themselves. She's also quite young for her age in herself. Eldest started using buses to see friends about 14.5 so it wouldn't be far off. But even then she prefers a lift! It takes significantly longer on a bus.

@ZoomDoomZoom and others wfh or hybrid yes that would be ideal. But do I turn down this interview on the home one comes up I don't know. Realistically we'd both be outside the home.

@GrandShow yes that's my fear whether pt work would come up. Sometimes a council job does. I'm not in the mn league of 60k plus type jobs but this would be a fab leap with progression in a way my pt/term time one isn't!

Other worries

• could I manage full time? When I look at wfh threads on here people say they couldn't go back to the office and work/life balance is so much better and they have more energy! I'm a bit worried I'm going in the wrong direction and may have a worse work/life balance and no energy...

*kids hospital appointments. Do you need to take leave for these things too? Just realising it's not just holidays. At least we're past the days of nativity and shows.

Don't let this issue stop you from working if you want or need to. It is doable, and your children are older so it will only be an issue for a while.

I use Parental Leave to boost my leave allowance. It is u paid and has to be taken in blocks of 1 or 2 weeks. I use that whenever I want a whole week off, leaving my annual leave for more flexible leave. You can take up to 4 weeks per year per child, up to the child turning 18 years, and have 18 weeks to use per child.

www.gov.uk/parental-leave

This summer I will have various combinations of my children (4 - 13 years) home for a total of 9.5 weeks. Fortunately the 4 year old has mostly solid childcare, so we are each taking 1 day per week and a grandparent is doing 1 day per week, leaving them mooching about for two days per week (non-consecutive). We work from home, but I'd be doing this anyway even if I worked on the office. I have 3.5 weeks of parental/annual leave booked to take them away (not one block) which will break things up.

When they were younger I used a childminder and holiday clubs. They're not all 10-3, though the proper "childcare" type ones that run 8-6 are a lot more expensive. Your chocked sound a bit old for those though.

As you've worked out, this is unlikely to be an issue until the Christmas holidays, when your work will expect you to ask for leave anyway. Try and take a week each; you'll both have the bank holidays together anyway. By the time Feb half term rolls around you'll be into the swing of work and you will work it out somehow.

Good luck at the interview! Don't raise this issue, as it will become much much clearer to you by the time it is really an issue.