Power of attorney, person already has dementia can you get po

[Inthesummertimewhen]

Can you get pow over them?.. Strange situation, house is in fil name but he has dementia and no pow over him.. Mil is fine but sil has pow over her

Sil and mil want to sell the house but apparently a conveyor needs fil to say yes and if they know he has dementia it won't sell... Can pow be obtained please, does any one know?

Yes but he has to have enough capacity now to sign one. Call a local solicitor to do this just in case as if any errors are made and he then loses capacity before it’s registered, you will have missed out.

My mother had dementia and I had to get Guardianship as she did not have the capacity to give anyone POA.

It was a long and expensive process, took about 6 months.

Live in Scotland so may be different in other parts of the UK.

No, if someone has dementia, they are unable to sign to give you that POA. You can apply for 'deputyship' with the Court of Protection which means you need medical evidence from 2 doctors and the Court can then appoint a deputy. I have no idea how often that is granted, or how easy it is to appointed a deputy.

My understanding is that a diagnosis of dementia doesn't automatically prevent them signing a POA - they need to have capacity to understand the decision and make a choice to sign. Even if poor memory means they might later forget they have done so.

And capacity also means he might make the decision not to sign the POA, especially if he knows his wife wants to sell and he doesn't.

@FiveShelties that's incorrect. You can get POA for someone with dementia as long as they have the mental capacity to understand what they are granting.

Oh OK, I only have experience of my Dad with dementia and he would never have been able to understand what POA even meant let alone be able to grant it to me.

Fortunately I had POA long before dementia was ever thought of in my family which made life easier. Who decides if someone with dementia actually understands what huge power they are giving to someone?

@FiveShelties a GP can do a capacity assessment.

Dementia is a progressive disease so a person might still be capable of understanding the meaning of a power of attorney whilst no longer being able to remember a new route to the shops, say.

Depends how far advanced the dementia is. It is possible if they still have reasonable mental capacity. Probably best to take legal advice on this.

Case by case basis for they understand the specific decision eg do you understand you are signing for daughter to manage your finance ? A solicitor might be satisfied enough to do the paperwork
Ask a poa solicitor to visit

We had a nail biter with my dad’s one - we put the POA in place for both when my dad was showing signs of memory loss but there was an admin error on my dad’s which meant re doing it after there had been some deterioration

Fortunately he was still signed off with capacity (it may have helped that it was for the same purpose ie the GP knew he had put down his wishes about end of life care etc 6 months earlier and they weren’t being changed)

So OP - get a capacity assessment ASAP.

If he does not have capacity to sign his own LPOA, you can apply to the office of guardianship for deputyship
however, this is not easy and involves an annual rolling cost and all sorts of additional controls and in effect the OoG has to have continual over site of the deputy actions. It is frankly a bureaucratic minefield and a costly one.
but it can be done
your mother would have to demonstrate that there are compelling reason to sell the house without your fathers consent - especially if it’s in your FIL sole name as sole tenant. first your MIL entitlement to joint ownership through marriage needs to be established. Of course there could be many reasons where it’s entirely justified to sell the house, like you mum simply not coping in her current home and needing downsizing, sheltered accommodation etc. if it is merely a “want” to move, and not “need” to move that could be more difficult.

go to the sites on the office of guardianship and look up processes. Then see a solicitor urgently. It will cost

unfortunately that’s the issue with no LPOA.

A question- re MIL , does she have old school POA or newer LPOA for both health and finance/legal. If not, urgently get her and SIL to switch to LPOA - they are way more flexible and useful.

seems odd that MIL has POA yet FIL doesn’t !

https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/what-happens-if-you-dont-have-a-power-of-attorney/#:~:text=If%20you%20lose%20mental%20capacity,appointed%20as%20your%20'deputy'.

That is really interesting, I am so pleased we did all the forms before there was any thought of dementia.

I don't think I could have applied for POA when my Dad was suffering from dementia, it seems to me a decision you have to make before you need to make it, if that makes sense.

Where will they both live if the house is sold. He would need capacity to sell the house, instruct solicitors and move somewhere else. Why does she want to sell.

Ok… but you don’t actually get a diagnosis of dementia straight away.

There’s also comfort in knowing that you are following wishes made clear at an earlier time, if it is something that is discussed between your parents or between parents and kids.

@SheilaFentiman I had POA for my parents around 15 years before I needed it for my Dad and it was the best thing we could have done.

Dementia is the worst thing I have ever had to deal with and I would advise anyone to get/give POA today. In cannot imagine trying to obtain this very important permission after a diagnosis.

Ok, thanks.

Not entirely sure how that post helps me or the Op, but fine. Will leave the thread now.

I think sil tried to get it a few months ago and fil said no...

Apologies if my posts do not help you or OP, I was just trying to explain how awful it is dealing with dementia and how important it is to get POA or what you could do if it was too late to get POA. But if you want to make some sort of a point about that then that is fine.

@Dartwarbler.. Unfortunately I don't think fil trusts sil so probably said no at the time.

Mil definitely wants to move for a genome reasons, she is struggling to cope and they have been married to each other for 60 years plus.

Everyone is being helpful.
It's a grey area and the law can be flexible. Thank you to all 💐

I am so sorry for you, it is really tough dealing with a family member unable to make decisions. I am not sure what your options are if your FIL says no.

capacity is time and decision specific….in reality …..once dementia is evident a POA is unrealistic …..i for one would not sign anything

@Kitkat1523 are you a solicitor?

Can a house be sold without his consent?

No…but I suggest you get one….if he’s saying no and there’s no POA then you can’t sell at this point …..have a look at the mental capacity act for definitions of capacity