Is it really that bad in the UK?

[BlastedPimples]

I don't live in U.K. anymore but was over visiting at the weekend for a wedding.

So lovely to catch up with people I'd not seen for yonks.

BUT every single person I chatted to was so gloomy about the state of the U.K. All professionals (civil servant, TV producer, charity head for example) so perhaps protected from some of the poverty.

I have never heard people express such pessimism even with the approaching GE.

Is it really that bad?

In general it’s far better than it was in the 70s… the only thing worse in the UK now than then is the NHS.

For many it’s far better than it’s ever been (assuming they don’t need to use the NHS) - it just depends what you are used to.

There are many more jobs available now than there were in the 80s for example.

One major downside is that you need a degree to even get a job as a receptionist (thank Labour for that shit-show they created).

Housing in large areas of the country is no worse / no less affordable than it was in the 90s compared to salaries when a nurse in the NHS earnt £7.5k a year and interest rates were higher.

(Current BOE base rate is still far below the historical average of over 7% - don’t expect it to come down much - the so-called experts in the media were all just spouting lies to avoid mass-panic - now it should be clear to everyone that the world hasn’t ended because interest rates are 5%).

Labour oversaw the massive financial crisis in the 70s causing massive inflation which destroyed much of industrial Britain, so the Tories got in. The Tories cut spending/services to try and fix the economy/industry and ended up being kicked out because people got poorer in a different way (more visibly rich richer, poor poorer). So Labour got back in and wasted a fortune, so the Tories got back in and just gave themeselves and their mates another fortune, so Labour will get back in… and repeat…

The big problem in the UK is the sheer massive size/cost of the NHS, it dwarfs everything else - there has been no long-term planning by any government.

Ordinary people are now using private health far more than they ever had to and would never have dreamt that they would have to. For example pensioners needing minor surgeries who don’t want to wait 12 months in pain and would rather pay £3k and go private to get it done (a specific example of a family member).

Why? Do you have a criminal record? Don't understand why people say they can't move?

No. It’s because post-Brexit I no longer meet the criteria for non-EU immigrants in the countries where I speak the language.

All the above.

Food covered in security tags says it all really.

Suppose depends what you term bad. It's all relative.

Bad compared to a war torn famine ridden failed state no.

Bad compared to what it was, then probably QOL is probably worse than it was.

Most of this is due to the credit boom of the 2000-2010s which had to be to some degree reversed during the next decade, and covid which we basically shovelled too much money towards the wrong people in furlough.

We will probably pay for that until 2030 at least. We are all out of borrowing money at the moment. For the first time in decades we have to live within our means rather than putting it on the (what appeared to be endless) tab.

What on earth are you on about?

Yes, it's really that bad.

Fluctuations of provision of different services in different areas, obviously, but everyone is feeling the bite of 14 years of incompetent government.

I watched an old lady at the local supermarket yesterday buy, maybe, a dozen items at most - nothing extravagant and it came to £50.

Olive oil is probably more expensive than gold at the moment.

Whether people can or not easily access their gp obviously varies, but overall access has become much, much harder. Even with the 2 week fast track paths for potential cancer diagnoses, people are dying of treatable cancer before they even start treatment.

Some medications have impossible to get hold of - people with diabetes & adhd for example, are struggling to get their essential meds.

Buying a round in the south-east has become unaffordable on average & even above average wages.

The economy is tanking and it's now tricky to find a job in previously secure job industries for many. Other industries have virtually collapsed (TV production for example).

Public transport: buses have been cut right back in so many towns. They've cut transport for the most vulnerable (disabled & elderly) in many places so these people can't get anywhere when they're able to leave their homes. Trains are becoming hideously expensive.

I don't blink now when I see petrol costs at £1.4x a litre

Everyone is so ground down and any nuance or ability to compromise has been lost from all debates. People see or hear something they disagree with or dislike and it's a race to the bottom in terms of who can insult, shut down, humiliate and silence the opposing view the most.

There's been a horrifying increase in anti semitism and racism. Now seeing the right-wing press start to stoke anger & contempt towards people with disabilities.

Thousands and thousands of people are still suffering poor health following the pandemic. Covid, while mild for some, has destroyed the physical health of many - probably permanently. Those who can still work need accommodations to do so, but businesses are cracking down on flexible working allowances meaning these people either have to work in such a way that continues to harm their health, give up work and end up on benefits, or be more public about their condition and face the discrimination that comes with it.

That's before we get on to the deterioration of mental health and the almost total lack of support or treatment.

Even if you like Keir Starmer - and many aren't sure about him - we all know there aren't any easy fixes. Labour will need at least 2 terms to make a lasting difference

Speak for yourself.

Everything is going to shit. Even good things like nice restaurants aren't as nice as they used to be. Health care provisions failing, children starving, elderly freezing.

I know the term the rich get richer is floating about but it seems only the really rich are getting richer, I know a lot of people living very financially well off who are losing it all.

Your last couple of sentences are so true, sadly. I've been seeing it on here a lot lately, as well as irl.

That's a bit harsh on the Labour Party. The 1970s crisis in the UK was triggered by two things. The first was that the Tory government of Edward Heath did a Liz Truss: cutting taxes and increasing expenditure and the result was inflation. The second was the Yom Kippur War which drove up price of oil, meaning more inflation. It also didn't help that then, as now, there were lots of crazies running round though in that decade just about all of them were on the left. I guess it also didn't help that Wilson, the PM for two years after Heath, was barely competent. Lots of parallels to now.

It’s interesting because it seems to me that the U.K. needs an overhaul in a lot of areas but the politicians lack the desire to do unpopular in the short term things. They need to rise above criticism if they’re certain they’re right.
The NHS is ripe for an overhaul and it’s not a case of NHS or America - loads of countries have well funded hybrid systems that work so much better.

View from the US.

Living within our means and a Labour gov will be interesting

Op see how it goes with Labour and decide

The continuing fall out from covid mixed with Brexit and the the massive price increases blamed on Russia and the Ukraine war all hit us in one go. It's tricky trying to unpick what caused what at times.

The NHS has never bounced back after covid as GPs are still reluctant to give face to face appointments. A cashless society is emerging and there are no banks on the High Street and everything is app controlled such as parking. Brexit means it'd harder to travel into Europe and passport control is different. Cost of energy, housing and food has risen and young people are finding it difficult to move out of their parents home as everything costs more than a single full time wage can afford. Add on the miserable weather between November until this week and people are just feeling run down and exhausted by it all.

I think there are various issues. Firstly, I think that what people expect a society to provide is almost impossible to pay for on low taxes and with so many people claiming vs contributing, plus the gigantic waste that having a mega state involves. I have no idea how this can be fixed. Higher taxes means generally people find ways to pay less tax, but all the things people want cost a lot to provide.

Then separate but linked are all the small things that add up to make life slightly miserable - pot holes, red tape, train delays, expensive food and petrol, hard to get a GP appointment etc. If there was more money, these could all be fixed quite easily but so much money goes on the big ticket items that the small things get lost.

Then in some countries you feel like you get more for your tax - eg in Australia, for half the council tax I paid in Surrey, pot holes are fixed quickly, the library is open loads and has dozens of extra functions, graffiti is cleaned up the next day, you get free “council clean up” twice a year where the council collects stuff you normally take to the tip, there are free native plant giveaways, playgrounds are clean and well equipped etc. The things that just make day to day life easier just work. Even things like it being quite unusual to have to pay to park anywhere (apart from really really popular places and the city). Even city parking is quite cheap. It costs $4 to get into the city on the train from where we live on the outskirts, and public transport fares are capped so you are only charged a certain amount per day maximum.

But when I lived in the U.K. last year it just felt like so many things needed fixing, where to start?

They have the wherewithal though - the passport office is so efficient and private business tends to run well. People are great at volunteering and there is a wealth of ability and desire to fix things but I think people (including government) don’t know where to start with it.

@BileBeansSara

Television programs have presenters that speak to the populace as if we are seven but to be fair an awfully large proportion of the people are infantile in their approach to life.

This is very true. If you aired The One Show for example to an audience 50 years ago they would tell you it was kids programme.

But you know what, half the country enjoy being childlike and a bit, well, useless. If the government can indulge it and keep you doped on benefits your whole life, you're never going to get out of that cycle. Which is in part why nothing seems to get done - more and more is expected of fewer and fewer to "do stuff"

You only have to look on some of MN threads at how incapable some people are in dealing with trivial day-to-day situations. The MH card gets played far too much, and disrespects those with a genuine illness.

I noticed that too when I was last over. The news programmes on TV have a forced jollity about them that I associate with parenting young kids. Radio 4 isn't so bad, thank God.

We are British; moaning is our national pastime made worse by the restless grey weather we had until last week.
Wouldn’t be natural to be positive or optimistic, people might mistake us for Americans.

Its really not bad here in the UK it is a beautiful country and we are lucky in so many ways. For emergency care our NHS is wonderful maybe not so good getting day to day appointments at GPs but here in South West I can still get an appointment within 2 days, sometimes on the day. I admit that not many dentists are taking on NHS patients but there are plenty of private ones about. The majority of us have a roof over our head and food to eat.

Like - you’re right. The U.K. has loads of lovely stuff. The countryside is beautiful, the attractions are world class. Brilliant museums, some of the best in the world. So much to do. It’s actually a brilliant place for a holiday.

But we’re setting the bar low if, in a wealthy country the best we can say is “people have a roof over their head, food and emergency healthcare is good”. This should be the absolute bare minimum.

Bascailly pretty much all the good stuff and things that work well are the things run by charities or private businesses. Is the National Trust a charity? It’s so well run, properties are beautifully looked after, the cafes are nice and there’s often a second hand bookshop. And all for about £12 a month for a family. Insanely good value.

We are a lot better off here than a lot of countries. The problem we have is the British love to moan about near enough anything and everything. If people planned more in their younger years like don't have a family until you have a home and secure jobs. I was always told as a young girl by my parents that I would need to work hard to achieve things in life and that things don't just land in your lap, this is advice I have always remembered and adhered to.

My goodness, this thread is getting full of Pollyannas. If life in this country is working out well for some, that's great. There's lots I like about my own life. But I think there are high levels of cluelessness as to why it might appear that the 'British love to moan.' Many genuinely have a lot to moan about at present. I think some people could do with educating themselves a little.

Alright- but if the jobs market is increasingly insecure and wages arent matching inflation, and young people CANT get on the housing ladder without generational wealth/ parental support (as is pretty much the case now- if you have a normal job, and no support, you are not getting on the ladder) … ? AND there’s no social housing…. what?

What you mean is - no babies for the poor? Okay cool. Less babies. Lots less babies actually, because more people are becoming downward socially mobile (google for data). Cuts the costs of education, some parts of healthcare, some bits of childrens social care… Fantastic.

Until you know, you’re 80 and you’re old and infirm and you need canny younger people to help you with health care, personal care, to fix things round your house, and there’s a massive labor shortage because you decreed 40 years ago “don’t have a family until you have a home and a secure job”. Ace. Sounds fab.

Hundred percent.