Jury discharged in trial of Constance Martin and Mark Gordon

[DontThinkJustDo]

They couldn't agree the verdict. I'm really shocked.

It was free because hardly anyone went.

@MFF2010 when I went to university I think it was only 10% of my peer group who went. When Tony Blair came into power he wanted that figure to be 50%, so the number of people getting degrees has increased over the years since then. So 30 year olds are more likely to have degrees

Thanks for pointing these out but the first case the dismissal was due to legal issues and the Lucy Letby one was hardly surprising with the number of murders the jury had to decide upon.

I think their brief must have advised him not to give evidence, possibly that was what has spooked the jury, they could argue that they only heard one side of the story.

Perhaps there would have been a very different verdict if his story had been heard in open court. She came across as needy but articulate ( and posh, always helps imo), I don’t think the jury would have had a very positive view of him, as what was reported about him sounded pretty grim, controlling and with a very murky back story.

I suppose good advice is what you pay top lawyers for.

Nothing is going to bring that baby back or make her short life any better. It's heart breaking.

the pair of them should be chucked into a cold dark cellar & left there.

Ain't that the truth!
Expensive lawyer & client who exudes confidence (either from a wealthy background or because they have a personality disorder) go a long long way.
Pretty well 100% of miscarriages of justice involve these two factors I think.

It is very sad if CM doesn't visit the children she has.
Perhaps she thinks that she will 'get it right with the next one' (I knew a very damaged woman like this). She should not have more children at all now.

@pinboard it doesn’t sound like you’ve listened to the bbc podcast. They did visit their children and the judge remarked on how much they played with and interacted warmly with their older children. MG in particular. He planted an apple seed for each child and the judge had that committed to record, so that when the children reached an appropriate age to access the details, they would see how valued they were by their parents. However it was also noted that they were unreliable and sometimes simply wouldn’t turn up, much to the distress of their poor children.

To be clear, I do not condone any of the actions taken by these two individuals, but the podcast has made me see how the jury might have failed to reach a conclusion, based on the testimonies. I think they genuinely thought they were doing the best for their child by going on the run. Massively misguided and selfish in my opinion though.

Found guilty of the other two charges:

www.bbc.com/news/articles/cqee6p0enjno

Good , and it’s great that they are going for a retrial and being kept in custody .

I think you can get life imprisonment for perverting the cause of justice so hopefully they both get a significant sentence.

I know it’s very unlikely they’d get life but maybe 7-10 years??

I hope in the meanwhile that the law changes and that defendants are made to appear in court and to be questioned in court ( and appear at sentencing) . I don’t care if they refuse to answer prosecution or defence questioning , I think it is important that juries see the defendants whose cases they are judging.

I know, I know, innocent until proven guilty, up to the prosecution to prove a case etc, but it really annoys me, especially the refusal to appear in court and for sentencing.

I don't. Much as I understand why people want it, it's not a workable idea. I know Sunak and Starmer were both grandstanding on the topic around the time of the Letby verdict, but Sunak has done nothing since and Starmer knows enough about the way the courts work to see it's not going to happen.

A lot of prisoner transport is outsourced now. G4S and the like. It's a dangerous business. Staff have actually been killed moving prisoners who don't want to be moved. Serco got such a massive fine after Lorraine Barwell's death that I wonder whether any organisation would be willing to bid for contracts that involve forcing prisoners to attend court. And there's already a massive shortage of prison staff, so them being responsible for forcing people to attend court every time it happens isn't a practical solution either. People just aren't that keen on jobs that come with this risk of being assaulted.