Jury discharged in trial of Constance Martin and Mark Gordon

[DontThinkJustDo]

They couldn't agree the verdict. I'm really shocked.

You have expressed this much better than I could and to clarify, I wasn't necessarily suggesting it in relation to this situation (although I don't think we have a full understanding of the dynamics of that relationship). But, as you have explained, women are so often victims of abuse by men. If they were supported in the right way and met caring, loving partners then there is no reason they couldn't have children

forced sterilisation is so unethical

usually cases where it is warranted will have to go through the court of protection and you will never even get to hear about it

though I think that there was one case made public years ago - it caused quite a stir!

Exactly. CM’s family doubtless stumped up for a good barrister.

What’s more unethical is having children and letting them die or repeatedly enter the “care” system .
It’s far too easy for the feckless to have children ( men too).

I've just said the same to DP. It is shocking to think that these jurors, having spent weeks deliberating, could not even manage a majority vote. I'm not sure a major trial has come to a halt because of this in recent memory. Personally I'm appalled at what appears sheer negligence, at the very least, isn't being punished. That poor baby.

Of course not! The baby ‘s father on his own would likely have been banged to rights.
Wealthy wastrel white daughter?
gets away with potential murder ( in my opinion only) ( turn of phrase)

I don’t agree with forced sterilisation fir any reason , reeks of eugenics and nazism. However I’m shocked given the evidence the jury failed to reach a verdict.

The foolish mother wittering on about Mongolia and Yurts- Mongolian tribes have centuries of knowledge behind them- and yurts are warm - as are clothes worn by babies there.

It’s not squalid hippie living in a tent without a decent source of heat.

How uncaring to bury the poor baby with nappies- Dogs and cats get treated with more reverence.

Despicable pair. No doubt she'll get pregnant again and go abroad.

I agree poor baby
however, you weren’t on the jury, you didn’t hear all they heard. Reasonable doubt is a high bar (as it should be).
I was on jury service for what should be a cut and dry case, we were a hung jury. I for one, couldn’t agree with certainty - despite one juror “he’s probably done it before just say he’s guilty”

I wonder if there is something we don't know about such as mental health problems which might be mitigating?

The poor baby, she didn’t stand a chance.

If there were mitigating circumstances it would have been part of the CPS case
There were several counts that the jury had to decide upon- concealment of a birth being one.

The defendants are clearly unhinged- listen to the podcast to hear what could be reported from the court
At the heart of this case is a baby that was not dressed properly, carried around in a bag and then buried in a shed ( after they decided not to set fire to the body)

The system of jury service in this country needs to be questioned
The baby has been failed

I've also been on juries, in one case, the foreman. I had to contend with one juror believing people were guilty until proved innocent.

Even without hearing all the evidence this pair were guilty of negligence at the very least by living off grid at the height of winter. They only cared about themselves. Sickening.
It seems to me that both the prosecution, in not proving the case sufficiently, and the jury for not coming to even majority decision, are at fault in the couple remaining unpunished.
If there is a retrial it is us, the taxpayer, who will be footing the bill.

The sad reality is that Victoria would be alive and thriving like her siblings are if she hadn't been in the care of her parents. For that reason alone, they should both be sterilised.

As it is, they will end up free to repeat the disastrous nature of their relationship and she'll be pregnant within weeks - and the cycle will continue.

I personally think Juries should never be made up of the general public. It should be a recognised profession and qualification so people can understand the evidence being presented to them.

That’s why the cps have to get the charges right. It’s easy to go for the hardest one, but they are also the hardest to prove. I’m assuming they will go back and reassess if the charge matched the evidence.

I'm not convinced that forced medical operations, especially where there is an element of punishment/ retribution, are something I could ever support.

I have to hope there is a more successful retrial to ensure justice, though.

I listened to the podcast and I think had I been on the jury I would have found it hard to convict them of murder. Neglect, yes, but not murder.

Surely carrying a baby around in a plastic bag amounts to some kind of offence! Neglect?

This is a sad case all round

I certainly think they will have to do this. Tbh I think they over reached and relied on the jury being appalled enough at the child's death to convict regardless of whether the specifics had been or could be proven.

Have they been released now?

💯 this!

Appalled, sadly doesn’t push you over reasonable doubt. I’d have to be very certain to convict someone of murder, even if my gut told me they’d done it, if the evidence isn’t there to support it. I don’t think i could. SIDs is heartbreaking and maybe easier for them to believe than their actions being the cause.

Sadly you can get one juror who just digs their heels in. When I did jury service 2 women on a jury of 12 said the most preposterous things that stopped an obviously guilty person from being convicted. You can't even report them to anyone, it's all secret. Their rationale for a not guilty verdict was nothing to do with the evidence.

The jury was down to 10 on the CM trial, they were allowed a majority verdict and I think there were people on that jury who either didn't understand the evidence or chose to ignore it.

They will probably have more children now and the whole cycle will start again.