So they want to replace PIP/DLA money with vouchers?

[moneyinthebinthatsmrtim]

I don't understand it. It is really worrying me.

This payment helps pay for so many things. I doubt these vouchers would cover that, or give the freedom to shop or buy from where you want or need to.

I included DLA because it's really just the child's version of PIP. Eventually, my profoundly disabled child will be an adult and will have to be on PIP

Is there really any truth in this? I can't see any articles directly quoting Labour or Conservative. I might just be in such a worry that I have missed that bit

Apologies if there is another thread on this too. I am happy to get this one taken off if that's the case

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pip-disability-benefits-plan-rishi-government-critics-b2537209.html

I have responded to the consultation because I have an adult DS who gets PIP. And I'm so glad the Tories won't be getting in, because the proposals are demeaning, dehumanising and downright cruel. PIP enables my DS to work - his many complex health conditions mean he can only work part time, and without PIP he wouldn't have the income he needs. If he tried working full time, his health would worsen to the point where he would not be able to work at all. He uses the money for transport, wheelchair suitable clothing and supplements that improve his health which cannot be obtained via the NHS. Vouchers wouldn't help with any of it, they would just 'other' him even more.

Anyone who thinks PIP is subject to large amounts of fraud is lacking in intellegence and empathy.

I see a LOT of people on PIP for self inflicted conditions which they could remedy but have zero desire to do so. And yes I begrudge that.

This is a really good point. If there was a process to get a 'certificate of disability' that didn't come with associated financial benefits, I suspect PIP claims would go down. It's not uncommon to need accommodations without needing extra income.

Sorry I think my post was ambiguous. I think pip payments very much do support independence and are the most agile way of providing the appropriate support. I don’t think vouchers do that AT ALL. I think they are costly clumsy and unnecessary.

iF PIP was being used for other things than support then it would be a case that the recipient didn’t need it.

How can it abused when the fraud on PIP is 0%!!

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/modernising-support-for-independent-living-the-health-and-disability-green-paper/modernising-support-for-independent-living-the-health-and-disability-green-paper#how-to-respond

Consultation is here

I’m not accusing anybody of obtaining it dishonestly. I just don’t think it should be granted to a lot of people claiming it.

Is that because you don’t think disabled people should get financial support to try and level the playing field, or because you think the the criteria is too lenient? Can you explain how you came to these conclusions?

Oh… I’m interested by this idea that people have conditions they could solve if they wanted to.
Please do tell? What conditions are we talking about there?

Drug/alcohol use and the ensuing MH conditions, mainly.

OP, I agree, vouchers would be ridiculous. We should trust people to know how to spend the money.

Digression, but based on your post, is residential care actually an option here? You sound like you are in a bad way, and you have the right not to be abused. Remember to put your own oxygen mask on first.

I don’t think people who have chosen to addle their brains through cannabis/alcohol and live a chaotic lifestyle should receive benefits for it, no.

they Are also saying you shouldn’t be able to claim for mental health, even though the system is shot and people are having to wait months/years for nhs treatment. I posted about this when the green paper came out - it’s outrageous.

Then you are ignorant of the realities of the system. My bil went all the way to a tribunal and they said they STILL couldn't give him his mobility car back even though they wanted to, the rules didn't allow it. Had his leg grown back you might ask... No, but they had changed the rules so a prosthetic leg does not count as a mobility aid.

I'd love to see all these people getting PIP who are no entitled to it. How do they do it?

Luckily we don’t filter out people like that before providing assistance though. I mean where would it stop?

There are lots of issues with going to Vouchers including its distinguishing so labels people, dehumanising, restrictive - who are they to dictate what makes life easier for people. Its an independence payment let them be independent. They are playing to the "PIP is too easy to get and money for old rope" electorate that they think will get them votes. My DH reckons they are out and out trying to loose the election as they don't want to deal with their own messes

It’s not outrageous. The fact is so many people are mentally unwell, or claim to be mentally unwell, we have lost control and can no longer hope to ‘meet the need’.

But that is often a symptom of wider problems, often undiagnosed. It’s too simplistic to try to make it out to always be a choice.

and for someone to meet the very high threshold for PIP they are going to have a significant level of need.

Disneyland Paris would probably be a very practical trip for a child with extra needs. Infinitely better than a rainy holiday park in the UK.

Honestly @MaryMaryVeryContrary that's a bit like saying fat people shouldn’t get healthcare because they “did it to themselves”.

Where do you see these people? Are they definitely on PIP or might it be other benefits? Because the process of claiming PIP is extremely difficult, it is geared more towards physical impairments and there are a lot of checks made on the applicants. Notwithstanding all that, I think we are on a very slippery slope when we say people's disabilities are self-inflicted. Didn't do enough exercise? That's why you can't walk properly, just get yourself off to the gym.

The form itself is very unscientific. Some people know how to fill the forms in to get the most points. There are tutorials on how to do so and sometimes a local “expert” who has a good record of filling in the form for family, friend etc. Whilst there is very small level of proven fraud (eg false name, address etc), it is possible to exaggerate on the form. So these are 2 different things.

I think sadly it’s a poorly thought through process which leads to some people obtaining it who probably shouldn’t have it and others who actually need it more not getting it because they haven’t filled the form in in the right way to get the points.

I think for most people it just gets absorbed into the family budget which I think is fine actually as if you are disabled then life generally is more expensive.

However I do think the whole process needs looking at but I’m not sure what better options there are.

Very regularly and it’s definitely PIP. The crux of it is we can’t afford to give money for everyone with some kind of complaint.

The tories are going to lose the election.

They are making up all kinds of stuff to say none of which will ever happen.

Personally I am disabled following an accident ten year ago. I worked up until a year ago. I'm now applying for PIP because I'm not working and I have found it very difficult to find a new job that is prepared to accommodate me. I was previously in teaching for twenty years but can't go back as the workload and stress did for me.

It is very very hard to get a job if you use a wheelchair, and I also have some other issues that mean full-time is not possible.

Unfortunately the Lib dems shot themselves in the foot when they jumped into bed with the Tories and people won't forget that. It's a shame really because had they not done that I reckon they would have hammered the Tories a few years ago.