So they want to replace PIP/DLA money with vouchers?

[moneyinthebinthatsmrtim]

I don't understand it. It is really worrying me.

This payment helps pay for so many things. I doubt these vouchers would cover that, or give the freedom to shop or buy from where you want or need to.

I included DLA because it's really just the child's version of PIP. Eventually, my profoundly disabled child will be an adult and will have to be on PIP

Is there really any truth in this? I can't see any articles directly quoting Labour or Conservative. I might just be in such a worry that I have missed that bit

Apologies if there is another thread on this too. I am happy to get this one taken off if that's the case

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pip-disability-benefits-plan-rishi-government-critics-b2537209.html

I do think there needs to be some reform as far as PIP goes to ensure the most severely disabled are protected. For a lot there needs to be some changes.

Bottom line is we can’t financially compensate everyone for their every misfortune in life. We can’t afford to do so and a certain amount of suffering just has to be endured unfortunately. I don’t say this lightly as I suffer most days, it is what it is and we have to get on with things without endless expectation and entitlement.

I'm of the opposite view to many on this thread.

I genuinely don't care if a few people seem to get it who based on the very limited info we see here and in real life don't seem to need it.

I would much, much rather that and everyone who absolutely needs it, gets it, than have a system where the most vulnerable have to jump through so many hoops they are dissuaded from doing so or literally cannot do so.

If we move to such a system, we are becoming a society full of judgement and discrimination leading to bringing back the 'evils' the NHS and welfare state was designed to remove in the first place.

I have read on these threads about many posters who, through fear, and the stress involved, do not even try to apply for PIP. They have been scared off by all the horror stories, and maybe do not have the mental space to deal with the punitive system, so avoid it altogether, whilsts continuing to suffer in silence.

I mean that’s nice but do you acknowledge it costs money? Money we currently do not have, as even Labour admits?

@MaryMaryVeryContrary
Bottom line is we can’t financially compensate everyone for their every misfortune in life.

Whatever gave you the idea that PIP is 'compensation'? Its to assist with the extra expenses incurred by being disabled.

I’d love an example tbh….
Please do share.

I think a certain level of expenses should just be absorbed by the individual.

Just to be clear I get full PIP. There are posters on here who sound like they should be too but aren't. There are also a few mentioned who inexplicably get it and often it's inexplicable because we don't know their circumstances.

And to be blunt there are a few described as getting it because society doesn't know what else to do with them other than leave them in the gutter to starve. I'd like to believe that even Tory Britain 2024 doesn't yet think that's an acceptable solution.

But why attack the most vulnerable in society? Why not cut MPs expenses, go after tax dodgers?

@MaryMaryVeryContrary what's the alternative? You sanction a huge amount of suffering? It's a "that's nice but..." situation it's quite frankly a matter of life and death for a lot of people.

The question of whether there is enough money is a choice on where it's spent and how much tax people are prepared to pay.

I think people are forgetting that they themselves or the people they love could get diagnosed with diseases, have accidents, be attacked and be in a position of needing state help.

Yet lots of people are on here begrudging it are you all suggesting you and your loved ones will never ever need to be a recipient? I don't want to tempt fate I want a safe society for everyone.

They are. PIP is a contribution. Doesn't mean it covers everything. A Scope survey suggests the average cost is £975 per month.

I suspect as they do the research on the green paper they will realise that vouchers won’t work, and I suspect it’s just being mooted, rather than considered as a serious change. If they pay my DD in ones that can be used for supermarkets or utilities as suggested, I’ll just ‘buy’ them off her to use on our bills and put the cash in her account to use on the things she needs - a small car/driving lessons, transport to college, private therapy/counselling etc. i suspect that is what many people already do with vouchered schemes.

Which is exactly why it needs reforming.
If she gets vouchers she will have to use the vouchers for the purpose intended. If she doesn’t need any additional support she won’t use the vouchers.
The purpose of disability benefits is to pay for things which support the disabled person.

I assume this method comes from other countries that use similar systems and has been seen to be successful.

@MaryMaryVeryContrary the question of suffering is a good one I think.
How do you evaluate suffering?

I think it’s a bit like pain.

Someone is in pain constantly gets used to it.
So they might go and see a doctor, say they have a new pain 6/10 and be dismissed because ‘it can’t be that bad, you don’t look in pain’. And then several weeks/months after, they find out the person has indeed a really painful (new) condition and ask ‘how have you coped with so much pain for so long??’.

Same with suffering I think.
How can you objectively evaluate that?

Someone who gets PIP need additional support by definition…..
Because they can’t perform daily tasks Wo problem/pain/safely etc….
Thats the whole premise of PIP.

But that’s illogical? At the moment she spends salary on food/petrol/bills and the extra money is used for kids clubs - perhaps because as a woman with chronic arthritis she doesn’t feel she can do vigorous activities with her kids herself and so it helps her to wear the kids out at clubs like this and makes her feel less guilty/depressed/anxious that she can’t mother them as actively herself.

If she got vouchers in stead of cash, she would simply use them for the food/petrol/bills and spend her earnings on the clubs. It will make no actual difference at all to how she spends her money/allocates funds. It will just mean using vouchers in sainsburys, rather than her bank card?

Because that would involve looking up, which funnily enough the majority seem reluctant to do. They would rather punch down, at people who are more vulnerable, and unable to fight back. It really is a form of State sanctioned bullying.

A massive overhaul of benefit fraud, tax dodgers etc are all intended with some areas, like PIP, MPs expenses and benefit fraud already under review and reform that we know of so far.
Even with all of these intended reforms we’ll still need more money so nothing can be left out.

It's not 'financially compensating'. It's bringing disabled people up to the point where they are a little closer to having a level playing field (but nowhere near getting there).

Your dismissive attitude and lack of understanding do you no credit.

And this is the other huge problem. If vouchers come in, you would do this pound for pound, with integrity. But what you'll get is the emergence of criminal enterprises who buy the vouchers off claimants for far less than face value and then use them to make money. And the claimants will be forced to take less cash than the vouchers are worth, because the vouchers won't cover what they need, whereas cash will.

Only aware of food stamps and vouchers being used in the US, where it is generally well known that recipients with addiction problems simply sell them at a discount and spend the cash on their vices. Ie not especially successful. What it does do it create stigma and division as using them in person means other customers and service staff see you using them and make judgements.

This alone would deter my self conscious Autistic/ADHD DD from ever using them - and on the basis she receives them because she already struggles achieving independence because shopping/cooking are a struggle for her, would be utterly counter productive. I doubt she would be alone. Administratively, issueing and monitoring the use of vouchers will cost the state far more than a cash payment.

I suspect it is very unlikely it will come to this, but they may look at the claim process and make it (even) harder to qualify.

But that’s just the point. My example of a relative of mine clearly shows despite receiving the lower rate she doesn’t actually need anything other than the tablets she gets from her GP.
She and her family lived with us for a while when they were having a roof and side extension put on their house so I’m well aware what she’s capable of and her current arthritis does not limit her activities. She admits it herself but as her friends get it for back ache she said she deserves it too as her kids wanted to learn musical instruments!

Thats wrong and her friends are the same. Just in that group of people there’s a lot of weekly money going out not used for its purpose. Tax payers can’t afford it and shouldn’t be paying for stuff unrelated to the disabled person and their own needs to deal with their conditions.

Reform is needed and that’s why the DWP are dealing with it.

Yes, totally agree, and just posted to this effect - well known that there’s a black market in vouchers/food stamps in the US.