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A thread to ask about cultural stuff you should know

262 replies

OneFrenchEgg · 13/06/2024 21:48

Ok so there's loads of stuff other people know and stuff I know.
Where do I start with Noam Chomsky and why? Is he left wing? Why is he so relevant?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
SheilaFentiman · 15/06/2024 16:53

I like your forward planning @BardsAreAssholes

letthegamesbeginagain · 15/06/2024 17:16

LadyHester · 14/06/2024 11:05

Keynes - John Maynard Keynes - economist. Milton Keynes named after him.
Left-wing, mates with Bloomsbury Group (Virginia Woolf etc), big proponent of state intervention to boost the economy - a relatively radical idea in the early twentieth century.

Milton Keynes was not named after the economist, the name dates back to the 13th century and one of the original villages here, nothing whatsoever to do with John Maynard Keynes.

ThrowawayUserName1 · 15/06/2024 17:26

Perhaps a more interesting question is Should there be a town named after John Maynard Keynes?
Who do you think needs a town named after them?

newtlover · 15/06/2024 17:40

great thread, thanks OP

Showmethebagels · 15/06/2024 17:45

I only know about Maynard Keynes from the Deacon Blue song!

BestIsWest · 15/06/2024 18:28

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 00:57

If you are interested in Keynes, there is a musical about him and his work on the Versailles treaty on iPlayer.

Yes I only listened because it's a weird topic for a musical.

However it's brilliant, thought provoking and has some excellent tunes (and I'd known nothing about Keynes except that his name isn't pronounced Keynes but Canes}

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015l42

I’ve just listened to this - it was great! Thank you. Should be played in schools.

Renamedyetagain · 15/06/2024 18:44

@Toosweetfan I think you were very patient and gracious with @AlisonDonut who came across as petulant, dismissive and rude.

And I think many people need reminding of political sensitivity, so thank you.

girlwhowearsglasses · 15/06/2024 20:55

Calling · 15/06/2024 15:34

The teachers should have taught art history instead!

No it was actually really important stuff, they were teaching us the right stuff, they just forgot to explain why.

AlisonDonut · 15/06/2024 20:58

Renamedyetagain · 15/06/2024 18:44

@Toosweetfan I think you were very patient and gracious with @AlisonDonut who came across as petulant, dismissive and rude.

And I think many people need reminding of political sensitivity, so thank you.

Loads of people are free to do their own responses as and when they want.

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 22:07

Thank-you @BestIsWest

ElectiveAffinities · 15/06/2024 22:44

Keynes is an interesting guy. Basically bankrolled the Bloomsbury set, gay until he met and married a Russian ballerina to the astonishment (and in some cases horror) of his friends

Very late to this (great) thread, but the ballerina was Lydia Lopokova, who danced with the Ballets Russes, where Nijinsky was her stage partner. She and Keynes were a devoted couple (he was almost a decade older than her) despite the scepticism of the Bloomsbury lot - she did make many friendships with eg TS Eliot and Picasso. Also very interesting in her own right!

Opera - Monteverdi's L'Orfeo of 1607 is often said to be the earliest known opera (pretty much as we would recognise it today), but there was an earlier one : Jacopo Peri's Euridice of 1600. Actually Peri wrote another, Dafne, a couple of years earlier, but that’s now lost.

gotthearse · 16/06/2024 01:17

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 05:39

@gotthearse Greek mythology is fun. There are a gang of gods and goddesses who hang out on Mount Olympus. They are utterly unlike the Christian concept of god as they continuously interfere in the lives of men and woman but are completely unreliable and capricious.

Zeus, the head of the gods, in particular keeps having sex with mortal women. In these encounters he is usually in a different form such as a swan or a shower of rain. A lot of these encounters are quite rapey. But if you read about them in a children's book you just think 'Oh Zeus ran off with Europa while disguised as a bull, cool' and not 'Oh shit, this is horrific'

There are also multiple stories about Greek heros eg Jason, Theseus, Herakles. They are also helped out by gods along the way, usually they have one that backs them despite however awful they might be.

Finally there is the Trojan War. It lasts 10 years, most of which is spent with the Greeks falling out amongst themselves. At the end, the Greeks go home but their actions come back to haunt them. Odysseus spends 10 years trying to get home (OK a lot of those years are spent hanging out with sexy nymphs) and has to fight for his kingdom. Agamemmon, who is an all round shit, comes home to discover his wife hates him for entirely understandable reasons, and gets murdered, This sets up a multi-generation plot where everybody dies. It's like the best soap you ever watched.

The Greek gods all get important into Roman religion too. But then they are more of a state religion that something all the Romans believe.The Romans are massively into religion and very superstitious so collect gods from everywhere they go.

Awesome, thank you!!!

Countrydiary · 16/06/2024 07:12

This thread is an excellent idea!

My question is linked to Keynes and Neoliberalism but it is why we switched from the Liberal post war contract with socialist elements to the Uber capitalism of Thatcher and then Neoliberalism? My parents just mutter about three day weeks and bodies not being collected in the 1970s, but I get very hazy on why that cultural shift happened and continued from the 80s today?

FortunataTagnips · 16/06/2024 07:28

@ElectiveAffinities Have you read the book Bloomsbury Ballerina about Lopokova? It’s been on my to-read list for years now but will bump it up if it’s good.

ElectiveAffinities · 16/06/2024 08:55

FortunataTagnips · 16/06/2024 07:28

@ElectiveAffinities Have you read the book Bloomsbury Ballerina about Lopokova? It’s been on my to-read list for years now but will bump it up if it’s good.

It’s on my shelf of to-be-read!

FortunataTagnips · 16/06/2024 11:33

ElectiveAffinities · 16/06/2024 08:55

It’s on my shelf of to-be-read!

Haha! One day, one of us will get to it…

crackofdoom · 16/06/2024 12:00

ThrowawayUserName1 · 15/06/2024 12:42

Who can tell me about wine?
I drink a glass occasionally at a restaurant, but always ask for the "house" wine as I have no idea what to ask for.

A lot depends on what you like personally! Do you go on holiday to wine producing countries like France? Because that's the best place to do your own personal degustation (tasting)- buy half a dozen bottles and work you way through them. I'd say the worst place to start is UK restaurant wines because they're so often mediocre and overpriced.

I'm not keen on New World wines because they all seem a bit samey, and what's the point of importing wine from the other side of the world when there is so much great wine on our doorstep? But if you like fruity, berry flavours you might prefer them.

Personally I like really strong, tannin-y reds, so I like Rioja, Chianti and some of the wines from the SW of France like Corbieres and Cahors. These used to be quite disregarded, but they've increased in quality (and price!) recently. If you like heavy and fruity, maybe a Pinot Noir/ Nero.

I find a lot of whites quite acidic and dull, but there are some nice fruity Italian whites (like Vermentino), and the Touraine region of the Loire Valley has some lovely whites. Cremant du Loire is a lovely sparkling wine.

An amazing rose recommendation from my proper wine expert friend was Rose d'Anjou (also Loire Valley).

I'm sure someone else will have a better explanation about the whole thing though.

Ormally · 16/06/2024 12:02

Quite hooked on this thread now.

In connection with the Modernism / Modernist areas, can someone tell me about Kandinsky? I'm interested especially in the writing and theory that he put out and how it relates to the art he took up towards his 40s after what looks like career and training without very many artistic angles. How was the writing received? Did it have many devotees, much influence, or people who gave it a (probably academic) kicking?

LifeofBrienne · 16/06/2024 12:47

‘Cultural stuff you should know’ I think is mainly stuff that helps you understand other stuff. History for me is the big one, especially world history and the 19th and 20th century in particular for how it shapes the world today. But there’s fascinating stuff from all eras. I’m no expert, but I do like a good history podcast.

Also stories - Greek myths, Bible stories and Shakespeare for example. And big political theories and movements.

I was thinking about classical music. It’s not ‘useful knowledge’ but I think it’s worth experiencing because, like other types of music, it can be pure joy.

It’s pretty easy to find playlists of popular classical tunes. The Year of Wonder book and associated Spotify playlist is a good place to start for anyone who wants to know a bit more. And if you can, go to a live concert. And join a choir (of any sort, classical or not)! Digressing a bit from cultural knowledge but there isn’t a clear line between things which are ‘worthy and educational’ and things which are fun.

AnnaMagnani · 16/06/2024 12:50

In terms of wine, start with what you like! It's so vast that you can't know all of it anyway.

My top tip is Lidl's wine tour. Different country every month.

Second is focussing on where you go on holiday, if possible go winetasting there. So I can tell you about Riesling after a holiday in the Mosel valley but not much about other German/Austrian wine. Know about Italian, Greek and Hungarian wine.

But absolutely nothing about France or the New World. But I could be quite happy just sticking to exploring the wine I do know a bit about forever.

What I definitely don't like is whatever takes off and apparently everyone loves eg Argentinian Malbec, Viognier or whatever this year's thing is. Have always found this a disappointing way to drink wine.

SaltBlossom · 16/06/2024 14:11

Countrydiary · 16/06/2024 07:12

This thread is an excellent idea!

My question is linked to Keynes and Neoliberalism but it is why we switched from the Liberal post war contract with socialist elements to the Uber capitalism of Thatcher and then Neoliberalism? My parents just mutter about three day weeks and bodies not being collected in the 1970s, but I get very hazy on why that cultural shift happened and continued from the 80s today?

Well simply because that's what Thatcher believed. She followed Hayek rather than Keynes and was a free market neoliberal.

ThrowawayUserName1 · 16/06/2024 16:29

Countrydiary · 16/06/2024 07:12

This thread is an excellent idea!

My question is linked to Keynes and Neoliberalism but it is why we switched from the Liberal post war contract with socialist elements to the Uber capitalism of Thatcher and then Neoliberalism? My parents just mutter about three day weeks and bodies not being collected in the 1970s, but I get very hazy on why that cultural shift happened and continued from the 80s today?

It comes down to oil, which is the source of all industrial economic growth (plus gas and coal, but mostly oil).
Without economic growth the ordinary adult or family will not get a bit better off each year, they will get slowly poorer.

Socialism or social democracy was all well and good when there was lots of money and growth in the fifties and sixties, but then in the early seventies OPEC (mostly the Arabian and Middle East countries) massively put the price of oil up.

Nobody in the UK or the West in general was willing to adjust by having a poorer lifestyle. As the unions were still strong then, there was an endless circle of wage demands then inflation then more wage demands, but no real economic growth without oil. Things fell into a right mess.

Then the North Sea oil came in (and other sources in USA), and Thatcher got in as a reaction to the mess, and likewise Reagan. They benefitted from two big shifts (as well as the new oil): women going into the labour force, so more workers boosting growth, and globalisation. Globalisation of finance means there is more to borrow, and globalisation of industry means cheap labour abroad and resources from mining or farming flowing into the West from poorer parts of the world.

Where are we now? Back in a big mess.
Global oil production has "peaked", which means there is slightly less oil available each year (the amount of oil has been going up and down slightly for nearly two decades, boosted by new sources such as fracking, but it has been basically flat-lining and is starting to contract).
Without ever more oil, economic growth stalls.
There is also a need for more workers to make the economy grow - hence mass migration into the UK being allowed - without it where would we get more workers? The women are already working. Hence the fuss about "missing" workers after Covid due to early retirement, illness, or part-timing. The government needs workers.

Both parties are promising to grow the economy - because if they can't, the mess won't get any better, and we will all carry on getting a bit poorer each year. But they won't be able to grow the real economy. They may do a few fancy tricks with finance to prop up the stock market, but you won't feel the benefit in your rent or in the supermarket.
My advice would be to get used to being poor, adjust your expectations, and embrace it as a greener lifestyle with less consumption and more saving money.

Elleherd · 16/06/2024 16:40

Countrydiary · 16/06/2024 07:12

This thread is an excellent idea!

My question is linked to Keynes and Neoliberalism but it is why we switched from the Liberal post war contract with socialist elements to the Uber capitalism of Thatcher and then Neoliberalism? My parents just mutter about three day weeks and bodies not being collected in the 1970s, but I get very hazy on why that cultural shift happened and continued from the 80s today?

This is just meant to be a starting point, of how that political evolution occurred from a laywoman's POV. Obviously considerably more things happened during the various governments, but it might help.

WW2 exposed appalling conditions and social divides with little likelihood that those returning from war would be prepared to go back to the status quo. Attlee's government was able to use a post war sense of being united to everyone's advantage and what was referred to as the 'post war consensus' was formed.
Much was based on the Beverage report for the reconstruction of post war Britain tackling "Want, Disease, Ignorance, Squalor and Idleness"
It included Keynesian economics, a broad welfare state, and a mixed economy and regulation to protect people, environment and state. There was general agreement to what the country needed, but not always about how to get it or who should pay for it.
One of the most fundamental differences was beliefs around trickle down wealth systems, egalitarianism and non egalitarianism, and financial mechanisms.

The 'consensus' held together reasonably up to the late 60's when Enoch Powells inflammatory speech in '68 divided many. Labour's 1968 Race Relations Bill was three days away from its 2nd reading, with the Conservatives seeking amendments weakening it.* It shouldn't be underestimated. Immigration had generally represented cheaper labour and less working security for the WC's, who Labour generally represented.

Going back to 1964; Wilson inherited a balance of payments deficit of £800 million from the Conservatives' use of 'Stop-Go' cycles and inflation issues.
His government suffered economic crisis, was refused membership of the then EEC and was forced to devalue the pound.
Taxes were increased and by '69 a balance of payments surplus had been achieved.
However, shortly after, inflation was at 12 per cent, and Wilson had earlier alienated many Labour party members with his handling of the National Union of Seamen's strike, and claims of communist influence on the union.
He lost the election, though quite narrowly, to Heath.
*Although Heath had sacked Powell as going too far in divisiveness, at the time there was much talk of those who agreed with Powell giving their votes to the Conservative party. Principled Conservatives wanted nothing of it, but it still expanded the vote, and taught other politicians in waiting something important.

Heath took us into the EEC (then sold only as a common market for trading) presided over the 1st miners strikes in '72, housing as a profit mechanism,
followed by the disastrous secondary banking crisis, which caused the bank of England to loose around £100 million, around the same time as the global 1973/74 stock market crash. Concurrently the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) implemented an oil embargo against countries who'd supported Israel during the Fourth Arab–Israeli War., (oil prices through the roof) He handled increasingly heated industrial relationships hostilely including the miners 'work to rule' actions and strikes in '74.
In Jan 74 all industry was put on a 'three-day week' to conserve fuel as we were running out of it. (your parents mutterings)
Heath confidently enough called a general election with a question: 'who governs Britain?' Politicians or unions?
There were no Black MP's, but there were increasing numbers of Black and non White union leaders and the press sought to make a point of it.
Heath was somewhat caught out by a hung parliament, the 1st for 45 years.

Wilson came back in with a very minority government, and settled the miners strike, but spent the next two years trying to pacify the by now militant workers and deal with further economic crisis, and most importantly a split warring Labour party. The pound collapsed and had to be bailed out by the IMF.
Inflation peaked at 25% in '75. Labour tried to control inflation after 1975 by annual fixed wage increases. Lower paid workers found it unjust, especially as dividends and profits rose. Labour tried to offer better working conditions, HSE, and gender and race equality., and industrial democracy, by having worker-directors in companies with over 1,000 employees. The Conservatives and businesses successfully fought against that, and the press whipped up race rhetoric. The theory of Labour versus the reality of what was happening, left
many workers feeling strikes and solidarity were the only way to change things.

Wilson resigned exhausted, and Callahan took over. By then strike action was everywhere, spread to general workers especially public servants.
We had the 78/79 'Winter of Discontent' where everything from fuel, & food distribution to rubbish collection and burials had been hit. (mutterings part 2)
Following the defeat of the Scottish devolution referendum, Thatcher tabled a 'motion of no confidence' in Callaghan's government. It passed by one vote (311 to 310) forcing a general election five months before the end of the government's term. They were basically caught on the hop in the middle of a monumentally disastrous period.

Thatcher had been successfully campaigning for some time with specific populist key policies on ending immigration, strikes, Socialism and Egalitarianism, and ideas around people being strivers and skivers and 'what was fair,' and timed her actions well.

"...call the Conservative Party now to a crusade. Not only the Conservative Party. I appeal to all those men and women of goodwill who do not want a Marxist future for themselves or their children or their children's children. This is not just a fight about national solvency. It is a fight about the very foundations of the social order. It is a crusade not merely to put a temporary brake on Socialism, but to stop its onward march once and for all"

Thatcher favored economists Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek policies, which opposed Keynes.
"There is no alternative" became her accepted mantra and outlived her.

Saatchi and Saatchi's "Labour isn't working" political poster, appearing to be a long dole queue (actors), changed British electioneering methods for ever.

New Labour fundamentally accepted neoliberalism, though that's quite an un nuanced viewpoint, mainly seeking to manage it, rather than transform it, and adopting many Conservative stereotypes against Muslims, Asians, the black community, young single mothers, youth, and promoting the concept that 'disabled people receiving benefits should “justify” why they were “taking money from the state” detaching itself from it's original ideology in the process.

Neoliberalism had became naturalized, and we'd entered an era of "vote for us, or you get them" rather than genuinely different political ideologies. What will appeal to the voters, had become the only way forward.

Both Capitalism and Neoliberalism are extremely good at changing superficial appearance and adopting apparently different clothing.

ThrowawayUserName1 · 16/06/2024 16:41

@AnnaMagnani @crackofdoom

Thanks for the wine tips. My husband doesn't drink alcohol at all, and I can't drink too much (two glasses and I am sleepy, then get a hangover), so a wine tasting trip would not be for me. I will take more notice of what is available in restaurants when we go on holiday.
The Lidl thing sounds good.

I once dated a very wealthy man for a short while, and he gave me some wine when we were at his place - I have never experienced a drink like it! It went down as smoothly as Ribena, no sharpness or sourness, it was so easy to have more, and the next thing I know I am absolutely sloshed. So I am aware there is such a thing as really good wine. No idea of what it cost but it would have been a lot!