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A thread to ask about cultural stuff you should know

262 replies

OneFrenchEgg · 13/06/2024 21:48

Ok so there's loads of stuff other people know and stuff I know.
Where do I start with Noam Chomsky and why? Is he left wing? Why is he so relevant?

OP posts:
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Zonder · 15/06/2024 00:30

I think we have set TitusMoan straight!

Great idea for a thread, @OneFrenchEgg

SheilaFentiman · 15/06/2024 00:35

Love the thread, trying to think of a question!

girlwhowearsglasses · 15/06/2024 00:49

Elleherd · 14/06/2024 21:02

Two old quotes from Noam Chomsky that are as relevant today as when he said them donkeys years back:

"instead of citizens, it produces consumers. Instead of communities, it produces shopping malls. The net result is an atomized society of disengaged individuals who feel demoralized and socially powerless.”

“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”

Yes mr Farage is making hay with the latter currently.

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 00:57

If you are interested in Keynes, there is a musical about him and his work on the Versailles treaty on iPlayer.

Yes I only listened because it's a weird topic for a musical.

However it's brilliant, thought provoking and has some excellent tunes (and I'd known nothing about Keynes except that his name isn't pronounced Keynes but Canes}

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015l42

BBC Radio 3 - Drama on 3, Hall of Mirrors

Musical drama about economist John Maynard Keynes and the 20th century's great crises.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0015l42

Barbadossunset · 15/06/2024 00:58

"instead of citizens, it produces consumers. Instead of communities, it produces shopping malls.

What produces consumers and shopping malls instead of citizens and communities?
I’m presuming capitalism.

girlwhowearsglasses · 15/06/2024 00:59

This reminds me of being at art school circa 1993. We all had to attend ‘contextual studies’- which we pretty much all didn’t really understand why. Nobody ever sat us down and explained why we needed a context to say anything at all about culture or art.

We dutifully trooped in to lectures about Savonarola, Machiavelli, many other foundational cultural titans, and of course Freud.
Out we went to the canteen to moan about why the heck we needed to know about Freud…

So young and so stupid

Teentaxidriver · 15/06/2024 01:05

Elleherd · 14/06/2024 21:02

Two old quotes from Noam Chomsky that are as relevant today as when he said them donkeys years back:

"instead of citizens, it produces consumers. Instead of communities, it produces shopping malls. The net result is an atomized society of disengaged individuals who feel demoralized and socially powerless.”

“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”

But why shouldn’t we fear drugs, crime etc????

girlwhowearsglasses · 15/06/2024 01:08

Teentaxidriver · 15/06/2024 01:05

But why shouldn’t we fear drugs, crime etc????

Because the fear is more of a problem and effect on our day to day life than the actual rational likelihood of any of that happening.

OneFrenchEgg · 15/06/2024 01:57

@Zonder yes I think Google is lonely. And overwhelming!

Contextual studies at uni sounds brilliant. There's loads of modules I think back to and wish I'd paid more attention to.

A musical about Keynes - well I've seen Diana the Musical and 'The Royals' as a musical so why not!

Just need a question from somebody that I can answer now 😃

OP posts:
OneFrenchEgg · 15/06/2024 02:00

Karlmayforpresident · 14/06/2024 22:28

It was a bit of a joke tbh. I listened to a programme about them both. Very different individuals although easy to mix up !

@crackofdoom has added a decent explanation to your recommendation though! Sounds good

OP posts:
merrymelodies · 15/06/2024 02:07

Great thread. Curiosity is essential to learning.

gotthearse · 15/06/2024 02:17

This analogy of the offside rule was flamed for it's sexism cos obvs all we do is shop, but I must concede it is one of the more memorable...

You're in a shoe shop (soccer pitch), second in the queue. Behind the shopkeeper (goalkeeper) is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have (the goal). The shopper in front of you (the last defender) has seen them too and is eyeing them. But both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes.

Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse (the ball) to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk past the other shopper and buy the shoes(score a goal). She could also throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and while it is in the air you could squeeze past the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. But until the purse has actually been thrown (the pass is made), it would be wrong for you to be in front of the other shopper and you would be offside

gotthearse · 15/06/2024 02:18

I don't know anything about greek mythology or post modernism.

EBearhug · 15/06/2024 02:28

in Our Time on Radio 4 is a 45 minutes programme which cobmvers a subject each week on all sorts. There are hundreds to listen to.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl/episodes/player

BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time - Available now

Available episodes of In Our Time

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl/episodes/player

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 05:39

@gotthearse Greek mythology is fun. There are a gang of gods and goddesses who hang out on Mount Olympus. They are utterly unlike the Christian concept of god as they continuously interfere in the lives of men and woman but are completely unreliable and capricious.

Zeus, the head of the gods, in particular keeps having sex with mortal women. In these encounters he is usually in a different form such as a swan or a shower of rain. A lot of these encounters are quite rapey. But if you read about them in a children's book you just think 'Oh Zeus ran off with Europa while disguised as a bull, cool' and not 'Oh shit, this is horrific'

There are also multiple stories about Greek heros eg Jason, Theseus, Herakles. They are also helped out by gods along the way, usually they have one that backs them despite however awful they might be.

Finally there is the Trojan War. It lasts 10 years, most of which is spent with the Greeks falling out amongst themselves. At the end, the Greeks go home but their actions come back to haunt them. Odysseus spends 10 years trying to get home (OK a lot of those years are spent hanging out with sexy nymphs) and has to fight for his kingdom. Agamemmon, who is an all round shit, comes home to discover his wife hates him for entirely understandable reasons, and gets murdered, This sets up a multi-generation plot where everybody dies. It's like the best soap you ever watched.

The Greek gods all get important into Roman religion too. But then they are more of a state religion that something all the Romans believe.The Romans are massively into religion and very superstitious so collect gods from everywhere they go.

SaltBlossom · 15/06/2024 05:45

isthismenopausalrage · 15/06/2024 00:21

Lurking. I have been enjoying history podcasts to fill in gaps of knowledge. Are there cultural capita
Ones?

You could try Origin Story by Ian Dunt and Dorian Lynskey?
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/origin-story/id1624704966

Origin Story on Apple Podcasts

‎Origin Story on Apple Podcasts

‎Society & Culture · 2024

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/origin-story/id1624704966

SaltBlossom · 15/06/2024 05:47

And on Keynes (and other matters) I found 'How to be a Liberal' by Ian Dunt so accessible and interesting on economics.

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 05:48

Post-modernism - first you have to understand what modernism is. Also it's very difficult to pin down.

Modernism is an arts movement where everyone is excited by scientific progress and technology. It goes with living in cities, industrialization, fading of religion. There is a general feeling that everything is going to improve due to science and civilization and it can be a bit serious.

Post-modernism basically rejects all that. In art there might be a mash up of lots of different historical styles. At it's best it can be fun and playful. At worst it can be deeply annoying in it's rejection of ideas about morality or truth or scientific evidence.

All I can say is you know it when you see it.

MadameMassiveSalad · 15/06/2024 05:53

Elleherd · 14/06/2024 21:02

Two old quotes from Noam Chomsky that are as relevant today as when he said them donkeys years back:

"instead of citizens, it produces consumers. Instead of communities, it produces shopping malls. The net result is an atomized society of disengaged individuals who feel demoralized and socially powerless.”

“The more you can increase fear of drugs, crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.”

My god so true.

MadameMassiveSalad · 15/06/2024 05:57

isthismenopausalrage · 15/06/2024 00:21

Lurking. I have been enjoying history podcasts to fill in gaps of knowledge. Are there cultural capita
Ones?

Ooo the rest is history is great 👍

Zonder · 15/06/2024 06:01

gotthearse · 15/06/2024 02:17

This analogy of the offside rule was flamed for it's sexism cos obvs all we do is shop, but I must concede it is one of the more memorable...

You're in a shoe shop (soccer pitch), second in the queue. Behind the shopkeeper (goalkeeper) is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have (the goal). The shopper in front of you (the last defender) has seen them too and is eyeing them. But both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes.

Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse (the ball) to you. If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk past the other shopper and buy the shoes(score a goal). She could also throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and while it is in the air you could squeeze past the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes. But until the purse has actually been thrown (the pass is made), it would be wrong for you to be in front of the other shopper and you would be offside

Isn't this from Bend it Like Beckham? I seem to remember it's how the OR gets explained to the mum or something?

MadameMassiveSalad · 15/06/2024 06:01

Teentaxidriver
But why shouldn’t we fear drugs, crime etc????

Because the fear is more of a problem and effect on our day to day life than the actual rational likelihood of any of that happening.

"All's in fear is fear itself
Check out your own backyard 'fore you check out someone else"
(Aaron neville, Hercules)

Bigredpants · 15/06/2024 06:06

New question. What is wrestling all about? Are the wrestlers actually trying to win or is it about putting on a show? I mean those people with stage names who do those choreographed moves that require both of them to play the move.

Solasum · 15/06/2024 06:07

Mythology is a fascinating subject. Once you know some of the basic myths, you will start seeing elements of them all over the place, including in architecture etc.

As a starting point for some of the most famous stories, I recommend the Orchard Book of Greek Myths. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchard-Greek-Myths-Geraldine-McCaughrean/dp/1408324377 plenty of copies available on second hand book sites too. It is beautifully illustrated and very accessible.

Amazon.co.uk

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orchard-Greek-Myths-Geraldine-McCaughrean/dp/1408324377?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum--chat-5096416-a-thread-to-ask-about-cultural-stuff-you-should-know

Zonder · 15/06/2024 06:21

AnnaMagnani · 15/06/2024 05:48

Post-modernism - first you have to understand what modernism is. Also it's very difficult to pin down.

Modernism is an arts movement where everyone is excited by scientific progress and technology. It goes with living in cities, industrialization, fading of religion. There is a general feeling that everything is going to improve due to science and civilization and it can be a bit serious.

Post-modernism basically rejects all that. In art there might be a mash up of lots of different historical styles. At it's best it can be fun and playful. At worst it can be deeply annoying in it's rejection of ideas about morality or truth or scientific evidence.

All I can say is you know it when you see it.

I can add to this, from the non-arts perspective.

Modernism was from the 1700s to somewhere in the 1900s and was about progress, facts, learning, advancing towards absolute truths. Also industrialisation, urbanisation and capitalism.

Post-modernism was mostly around the 60s to 90s (or even up to present day) and was a kind of rejection of absolute truth, and questioning reality. Scepticism, conspiracy theories, media influence.

Some say we are now in a post-post-modernist society and some call it meta-modernism. Basically a time of swinging between modernism and post-modernism.