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Thread 49 Sunak: He Left them on the beaches

1000 replies

DuncinToffee · 12/06/2024 18:43

3 Weeks to go Wine

Previous thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5090939-thread-48-sunak-capsized-on-the-ship-of-lies?page=40

OP posts:
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99
MrTiddlesTheCat · 15/06/2024 07:55

L1ttledrummergirl · 14/06/2024 23:23

I hope they don't cave on Farage.

Something relatively minor on the political front when it comes to womens health. I have a pregnant colleague who suffers with hay-fever. Other than over the counter meds that don't do a lot, there is nothing she can take.
You would have thought some consideration would have been given to this down the years. They can give a bloke an erection, but can't provide proper health care to pregnant women.

Tell her to invest in a saline nebuliser. Best money I've spent. I haven't had to use any allergy meds since I started using one.

Alexandra2001 · 15/06/2024 08:08

CassieMaddox · 14/06/2024 21:55

Electoral calculus has reform on 6 seats as their high estimate so I'm not too worried. Would love to see an LD opposition and its just about possible

TBF just a week ago, it was zero.

Reform may well get far more than 6 seats, i think there is an awful lot of disillusioned Tory voters out there who will never vote Labour.

I never quite get the argument that Reform cannot do well in a FPTP system, why not? just needs enough people to vote for them.

There is also the possibility a last minute deal will be done and therefore both Tory & Reform will do far better than current polls suggest.

Spandauer · 15/06/2024 08:27

CassieMaddox · 14/06/2024 22:54

Reform got no vote share in the last election so don't count 🤷‍♀️?

I really hope they don't include him but he does seem to have a season pass to QT.

Reform don't actually have any votes until somebody votes for them and, as the GE hasn't happened yet, all these Reform voters could just melt away on July 4th. (Naive wish...)

fabio12 · 15/06/2024 09:14

I'm hoping the electoral commission have learnt from Brexit and the bots that they need to nix this quickly. He'll come bloody second if they let them brainwash everyone again! Where have all the rule makers gone?!

Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 10:26

I see Sunak has handed his old boss & ex BBC chairman, Richard Sharp, a knighthood.
It's almost like it didn't matter that he was setting up bank guarantees for Johnson in exchange for jobs.

x.com/steven_swinford/status/1801891155811962903?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

DuncinToffee · 15/06/2024 10:59

Johnson's golden wallpaper interior designer got an honour as well

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 15/06/2024 11:00

Where have all the rule makers gone?!

They were put in the bin by Johnson and co

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 11:27

Interesting twitter tax thread from Dan Neidle.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1801917214737477927.html?utm_campaign=topunroll

fabio12 · 15/06/2024 11:36

Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 11:27

Interesting twitter tax thread from Dan Neidle.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1801917214737477927.html?utm_campaign=topunroll

Yes, heard this on R4 yesterday - tax is actually taxing the top more, but no one wants to talk about it... Retirees are paying more tax now than every before and more than younger earners IITC

DuncinToffee · 15/06/2024 11:36

The Council Tax banding system is just shocking

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 15/06/2024 11:42

DuncinToffee · 15/06/2024 11:36

The Council Tax banding system is just shocking

What fascinates/annoys me is that when the government reduced funding for local government they didn't simultaneously revise council tax banding. I guess that would have been too transparent.

DuncinToffee · 15/06/2024 12:04

Polling cards arrived today

Together with 2 tory leaflets for different addresses, so they are being recycled Grin

OP posts:
MaybeNotBob · 15/06/2024 12:35

..

Thread 49 Sunak: He Left them on the beaches
user8800 · 15/06/2024 13:06

MrsMurphyIWish · 14/06/2024 16:38

Totally agree. Just got in after a tiring week of teaching (so grouchy - although my “treat” is to leave on the bell on Friday).

This government has created individualism at a heightened level - no one can see beyond their own personal circumstances, there’s so much blindness to the wider society.

^ this

MaybeNotBob · 15/06/2024 13:09

Haggis_UK  @Haggis_UKNigel Farage, live on SkyNews, is complaining he's not getting enough coverage.

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1801589500847567152

x.com

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1801589500847567152

user8800 · 15/06/2024 13:09

It's been illuminating for me personally as a woman who cannot take hrt (and I've tried em all!)

There is simply nothing to help me. And not one single hcp I've met - male or female - cares.

I guess as long as I can continue in my caring duties, I'm fine :(

Maternity care was shocking under labour (i had 6 pg and 2 live births under new labour) I'm scared to think what it's like now tbh.

L1ttledrummergirl · 15/06/2024 13:22

My maternity care under Labour was fabulous. The tories wanted to close our local maternity hospital though, we have had a number of campaigns to keep it open despite it being amazing.

The conditions for midwives to work in has deteriorated badly over the last 10 years.

Spandauer · 15/06/2024 13:34

Farage - danger to Starmer as well as Tories.

From Robert Peston on Xwitter (longish thread)

These are my election-campaign mid point reflections

In the weeks BF - before the return of Farage - it was a commonplace among MPs and commentators that the UK was a wonderful
anomaly: there would be an election dominated by two mainstream centrist parties with technocratic leaders, with nary a right-wing populist insight.

Weren’t we the superior lucky ones? So they chuckled. Just look at the chaos caused by the populists and extremists in the US, and France, and Germany, and Scandinavia, and across swathes of Eastern Europe.

Britain, as usual, was the superior exception, they swanked.

Well since Farage seized control of Reform and chose to stand as an MP, they’re chuckling and swanking no longer. Depending on your opinion poll of choice, somewhere between one-in-eight and one-in-five of those likely to vote will back Reform.

And at least one consequence, whether or not Reform eventually garners more real votes than the Tories, is that Labour’s margin of expected victory may be the biggest in modern political history.

Farage’s comeback tour is the significant event of an election campaign that Rishi Sunak did not have to call. Farage’s hoovering-up
of the support of those who feel abandoned by the Tories - and to a lesser extent by Labour - has significant implications.

The first, as I said in yesterday’s edition of the Talking Politics podcast (spreaker.com/podcast/talkin…), is it highlights the most far-reaching political error Rishi Sunak has made since becoming prime minister - which was his failure to neutralise Farage before calling the election.

This is no small whoopsy. Farage’s gleeful vow is to destroy the Conservative Party (an ambition he paradoxically shares with Sunak’s erstwhile mentor Dominic Cummings who loathes Farage - but that is a story for another day).

The point is that over the past 18 months or so, Sunak could have shifted the Tories rightward and made Reform redundant, or moved them to the centre and turned his fire on them with the ferocity he showed to Labour.

Instead he appeased Reform and the right of his party with a series of “lite” Faragist policies - symbolised by his critical position on the European Convention of Human Rights and its associated Strasbourg court that seemingly endorsed the criticisms of Reform and the right of his own party, while refusing to concede to their pressure to withdraw from the Convention.

He gave credibility to Reform while refusing to adopt their positions, such as that authorised immigration should fall to net zero.

In not being able to bring himself to say that their approach would tank the economy and turn the UK into something of an international outcast, Sunak left the impression that Farage and Reform were making an important argument.

What voters saw was a Conservative Party at war with itself on these issues, split between Braverman and Cameron, and a leader unable - some of his MPs said too weak - to pick a side.

Sunak also created the impression of being frightened of Farage, when Farage bowled into Tory conference last autumn and the prime minister refused to say that the man who had done so much damage to his party, and continued to savage it from his then platform on GB News, would never be a welcome member.

Even now, and even in the face of Farage’s explicit mission to consign the Conservative Party to the dustbin of history (listen to what he said to me on the Peston show on the night the election was announced), Sunak chooses not to attack Farage and Reform directly. Instead he pleads that a vote for Reform is a vote to give the Labour Party an even bigger majority.

This feels self-harming. Sunak is saying that Labour has won and that wannabe Reform voters have the power to determine Starmer’s margin of victory. [Part 2 below]

[Here is part 2]

This might deter a few of them from backing Farage. But more likely they will simply hear that the game is up for the Tories so they have nothing to lose by voting with their hearts for Reform.

There is the rub. And almost as much for Labour, as for the Tories.

Let’s conduct a thought experiment that is plausible on the basis of recent polls, that Labour ends up with an unassailable margin of victory of circa 200 with a share of the vote less than 40%.

Put to one side the charge from Sunak that this would make Starmer even more irresponsible than he would otherwise be. Ignore the scaremongering of Starmer as the socialist dictator. Focus on how such a result would degrade our first-past-the post electoral system.

If Labour were to win so huge, on the back of the votes of perhaps just a quarter of those eligible to vote, pressure at that point for electoral reform would be real, a populist movement and possibly irresistible - led, or so he says, by Farage, in unorthodox alliance with the Greens and LibDems.

But there is something else just as significant for Labour. Reform’s surge is the final confirmation that tribal loyalties to political parties, rather than to issues (like Brexit, or fighting climate change), are shallow, few and far between.

It means that if Labour disappoints fast or slow in government, its lead in the polls could melt away as quickly as snow in a globally warmed mid winter.

The pollution in the air at this election is the widespread belief that all politics is broken, and that politicians always let us down.

If Labour and Starmer break whatever wary and sceptical trust voters may place in them, they may find their expected landslide victory guarantees them no longer in office than Boris Johnson’s handsome triumph in 2019 has seemingly yielded for his party.

It is all very well for Starmer to set expectations relatively low for what a Labour government could achieve in the short term. But he is telling British people he represents “change”, which does not sound modest.

If in fact Starmer delivers more of the same, his apotheosis may be just as short as Johnson’s.

SerendipityJane · 15/06/2024 13:40

A lot of words there from Peston. Not sure if they are all needed.

Whinging about the size of a Labour majority under FPTP would be a worthwhile pastime if the Tories acknowledged that their 80-seat majority was also somehow illegitimate (despite being totally within the rules). And that's where the discussion stops.

We had our chance to fix that in 2011. Chose not to take it. The rest is history.

user8800 · 15/06/2024 13:41

Interesting...

I told my dc yesterday I predict labour will get 4/5 years in power

After that, it'll be a tory/reform coalition

God help us all

fabio12 · 15/06/2024 13:57

Preston managed that entire rant without mentioning Brexit. I'm fairly sure better minds than mine could happily tear strips off Farage if we could only agree it hasn't improved our country in a single way. I often wonder if the only reason Labour refuse to confront it is because of the VAT policy.

"This is no small whoopsy. Farage’s gleeful vow is to destroy the Conservative Party (an ambition he paradoxically shares with Sunak’s erstwhile mentor Dominic Cummings who loathes Farage - but that is a story for another day)"

I'd never rule out an allegiance with Cummings/Farage - this isn't the first thing they've seen eye to eye on and wont be the last - the disruptors of our day who have no real aptitude for policy.

tobee · 15/06/2024 14:29

I love the way Boris Johnson is screeching all over the media about the possibility of a "freak" Labour majority. Is he reflecting on his role in that possibility? 🤔

Saucery · 15/06/2024 14:49

My maternity care ranged from Indifferent to Dangerous to Patronising (I had complications) and left me with PTSD. More of an ‘X Hospital Maternity Unit Being Shite’ thing than a ‘Labour’ thing, I suspect.
DH has worked for the NHS for 30 years and says it was, on the whole, better under Labour. Schools and public services (my career area) were definitely better. There’s a lot of ground to make up, so I’m not expecting any miracles but being handed an extendable ladder to haul it out of the pit is better than the Tories chucking shovels down to us and telling us to dig deeper.

pointythings · 15/06/2024 15:14

I had my kids in 2001 and 2003, and in 2003 things were definitely worse - the midwife who delivered DC2 was working a second consecutive shift because of staff shortages.

I shudder to think how bad things are now.

countrygirl99 · 15/06/2024 16:33

Saucery · 15/06/2024 14:49

My maternity care ranged from Indifferent to Dangerous to Patronising (I had complications) and left me with PTSD. More of an ‘X Hospital Maternity Unit Being Shite’ thing than a ‘Labour’ thing, I suspect.
DH has worked for the NHS for 30 years and says it was, on the whole, better under Labour. Schools and public services (my career area) were definitely better. There’s a lot of ground to make up, so I’m not expecting any miracles but being handed an extendable ladder to haul it out of the pit is better than the Tories chucking shovels down to us and telling us to dig deeper.

As did mine pre the Tony Blair government

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