Where has the money for the NHS and schools gone?

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

I'm not an economist so please cam someone explain this in lay terms to me?

The NHS and schools need far more funding. Along with other public services. But why is this? Taxes have risen, some costs have gone down, and yet there's not as much funding as,say, 20 years ago.

I work in local government. We've had wage stagnation for at least 10 years. In real terms, my pay is about 20% less. That's the same in a lot of other public services. I appreciate that other costs, especially building ones, have gone up.

Given that, as far as I can see, taxes haven't gone down, why is there now far less money to pay for public services?

@TizerorFizz not very encouraging.

A thread about the lack of pro-growth tax reform in Labour’s manifesto. (Not about lowering tax, but about simplifying and removing disincentives to growth). I don’t know why a Labour government wouldn’t do this. There’s no danger of losing the election, and they’d win credibility with business/professional types without big giveaways.

https://twitter.com/DanNeidle/status/1801534187620512102

Whether we like it or not, business drives growth. We have a nation fixated on spending. Nhs being the big one. We are addicted to it. That leads to wanting higher taxation but always on who is perceived as wealthy. There needs to he recognition that we need wealth creators. They need a return or why bother? We don’t want to see companies choosing other countries for their Haws or manufacturing centres. So yes, having the doors open for business helps us but Brexit plainly doesn’t. Labour has said nothing about our international trade. They should.

Haws?? Headquarters

The SNP have just had to return 450 million in grant money to the EU because they couldn't organise themselves to spend it. Just think what they could have done with that money.

Honestly, I just don't think this country has as much money as we think. We've been a medium sized economy for a long time with a growing population and old infrastructure that's not fit for purpose. Our GDP is mainly services and financial services which isn't enough (and why we need to play nice with big corporates because if they take business elsewhere we are fucked).

We are heavily funded by foreign investors now to stay afloat and the dream of being a socialist utopia like some in Labour want is just deluded. I don't think pumping more money into the NHS is the answer - it's a bottomless pit because it's also terribly managed (not by the Govt but senior mgmt). The GP services are not fit for purpose so everyone goes to A&E in high density areas. It needs a complete overhaul frankly. Trouble is there isn't enough money - even in the private (non City) sector.

Personally I think our education system needs to pívot to support the economy. Train people to do the jobs we desperately need. Technology, infrastructure, trades, services - once these industries boom competitively there can be more money for the public sector. Until then it will just keep getting worse because there is no magic money tree.

Many people have said it, money in the NHS needs to be better target and used more efficiently!!!

Thos on the frontline will have good ideas!!!

@renoleno Yes. That’s about it. Brexit has started to kill off the city. Huge self harm. We cannot keep borrowing so must up productivity. Labour know this but their ideas are woeful and insufficiently worked up and neither can they shake off their loud left who hate anyone who does well (and pay school fees). Attacking the better off never works out. They generate wealth. We now have vast numbers who use the wealth and contribute very little.

Firstly, it's nothing to do with immigration, our GDP per person is higher than when we had free education for life and easy access to dental care. It's because public revenue and assets have consistently been funneled into private hands.

On the back of "austerity" economics which cut the infrastructure that reduced demand on services higher up the chain, particularly in healthcare, and wasted money paying down debt rather than investing in long term growth has left us in a spiral of loss of revenue and death by a thousand cuts.

Agree with this. Austerity was a choice. It didn’t impact the wealthy as much as it asserted those on lower wages.

In terms of the nhs I’m curious - who decided that PAs would start on £15k more than jumior doctors? Who decided that GP surgeries couldn’t use their funds on extra doctors but they could have PAs?

Brexit reduced tax income from businesses by £40billion per year on average.

Which reduces the money available for public services.

Zeddy- the cost of £9 is what the patient pays the NHS per prescription. That isn’t the cost to the NHS to buy the drug. It would be pennies for paracetamol but perhaps £ thousands for cancer drugs. Your Dr friend wasn’t saying the NHS pays more for Paracetomol than the OTC price.

Yes this is a huge scandal. Areas have to put together fancy competitive bids for the funds and what is happening is the affluent areas with the money and staff to put together cracking, slick, bids are getting the money while the deprived areas are not. Money is being siphoned off from deprived areas to better off areas by the way they are running this.

Tiny number of levelling up projects have been implemented.
Many are in fairly affluent areas.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/03/councils-demand-independent-review-of-arbitrary-levelling-up-schemes
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/18/rishi-sunak-constituency-bid-raises-fears-of-levelling-up-favouritism

yes It is scandalous.

Seems to go against the spirit of levelling up. Those with resources and the means get to hoard further money.

I see this type of thing in education too. If you want to be a doctor and have no family money then you can’t access many resources that cost £££. It’s deeply unfair.

And this one
Why one of Britain’s wealthiest villages has netted a £300k taxpayer-funded levelling-up grant

”The data shows that the local authority Cranleigh sits within, Waverley, is the 313st least deprived out of 317 in England”
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/why-one-of-britain-s-wealthiest-villages-has-netted-a-300k-taxpayer-funded-levelling-up-grant/ar-BB1nXEHU

Yes I saw that one.

The system is designed to keep the money amongst the wealthy.

Not everywhere in the south is rich. You have to look at projects and how much productivity they might generate. The south pays way more in taxes. It’s fair that some projects follow need. It’s not correct the south doesn’t need any funds.

Plus the north has great universities. Great centres of learning. Are we really saying everyone in the north is incapable of putting bids together? That is clearly rubbish. The North made the huge mistake of backing hs2. The south didn’t need more railways. The North did. East to west. Sadly the politicians in the North thought going to London was better. So where’s the money? Sunk into hs2!

It would interesting to see what bids didn’t make it. What was determined to be the greater need.

It’s not about being incapable but more to do with access to resources/ money to put together an eye catching bid.

Into the pockets of Tory MP's and their mates.
I have no objection to people making money from Public Services but in recent years the Tory position has been "ok, firstly how can WE personally make money from this" and it needs to stop.

The paracetamol used in hospital is mostly the intravenous form, which is a really useful analgesic for all sorts of conditions. It is more expensive than the otc tablets.

The conservative party is more like an organised crime gang than a government, as far as I’m concerned.

Not everywhere is rich in the south but children from all backgrounds have greater opportunities to better themselves. Cultural opportunities like libraries, world famous museums and art galleries etc and certainly when you consider how much stuff is free. The standard of schooling is way better in London, even in deprived areas because some of the best teachers are attracted to the capital. Less so a sink comp in Burnley or Oldham. Plenty of evidence to back that up.
Transportation far superior so it’s not as vital that young people have to drive like up here. Try getting an apprenticeship anywhere other than your home town when trains are so unreliable and buses non existent. Try getting decent work experience up here unless of course mummy or daddy have their own business.
And yes we do have great universities up here but some of the best ones are in London and the south, completely out of reach financially for most bright youngsters up here to the extent that they don’t even consider them.
HS2 wasn’t about travel to London. It was about freeing up tracks, increasing capacity. The media latched onto the ‘London in 2 hours’ cliche.
@TizerorFizz you need to get up here and see what it’s really like. You sound patronising as f**k.

@Karlmayforpresident Do you think I don’t.? It’s total rubbish to say Manchester and Leeds unis are not good enough. Costs of attending Oxbridge are the lowest. Dc should apply and find out! Scottish unis are near. Try them. World class. Why people cannot aim high is beyond me. Looking at Manchester, I see many who truly do.

We domt have a bus service. There are trains that are unreliable here. The North bought into hs2. Utterly foolish to not shout for East/West improvements. You have great employers in the North. Of course there are opportunities. You have amazing graduates. Get them writing bids. They are just as good as everyone else. Plus bids are tick box exercises.

The North has poor transport because LABOUR came up with HS2. The biggest white elephant ever. Total clapping and cheerleading in the North. It will thunder by me. The North was slow to pressurise for better connection within the North and we didn’t really need more capacity down to London. You all fell for that one. And yes - to London. Media city wanted it and northern politicians. Who else?

@TizerorFizz No one has said those Unis are poor ?
What on earth are you on about.
I wasn’t talking about graduates. Not all kids go to uni. Apprenticeships were touted as the next best thing, but like most Tory plans they’re never fit for purpose. Like I said the country is held back because of unequal investment and a north south divide plus austerity hit the north harder.
HS2 was about capacity not a 2 hour journey to London. Billions wasted because the tories needed money to fill pot holes in the south east.
Tories have been in power 14 years.