How is the current benefits system sustainable?

[OneLemonOrca]

This is kind of a sub thread from the public enquiry thread about child development.
More and more people are being diagnosed with autism and severe anxiety, and being deemed unfit to work full time or at all.
I am wondering what is going to happen or how this will actually be sustained. Is there going to be changes in eligibility to benefits? Is there anyone that actually knows?

Isn't the NHS funded through NI contributions ?.

Life expectancy stopped rising during Covid.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2020to2022

That would have chuffed the govt..get rid of some pesky pensioners.

Yes, and often it's private rentals, which is a big reason why the benefits cost is so high, and why they're heading into older age in poorer health.

More timely and effective help and support when needed would address this. Would improve people's quality of life and health and reduce the cost of financial and other help later on. Leaving people's health or other support needs to worsen is false economy.

Quicker NHS treatment, more social housing, improved child support system, better social care services, supportive benefits system, and more work and training opportunities would all reduce the cost.

People seem to be arguing we can't afford the benefits bill.

The statement I think was that we have an ageing population and anxious people who can't work.

We do have an ageing population which is increasing the benefits bill due to state pension but an increasing number of people over 65 are working.

6th richest country in the world? It's not even in the top 30

What a well balanced thought out post.😁

We do have an ageing population which is increasing the benefits bill due to state pension but an increasing number of people over 65 are working.

11% of over 65s working mainly part time doesn’t negate the other 89% though?

“The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) predicts that in 2023-24, average government spending will be £23,700 a year for 75-year olds and £32,400 for 85-year olds. This compares to £19,100 for 15-year olds and £7,900 for 45-year olds”

”As well as government spending being higher for the elderly, revenue raised by taxation on the elderly is lower than that for working-aged adults”

”For example, in 2018-19, the median tax payer aged 45 to 49 paid £3,140 in income tax, compared to the median 70 to 74-year-old taxpayer who paid £1,580. The elderly’s lower incomes also mean lower spending, and so revenues from VAT (which is added to the price of good and services) are also lower for the elderly”

And we already have more 65+yrs than under 15 yr olds so without immigration the pyramid is inverted which isn’t sustainable.

Life expectancy stopped rising during Covid.

which doesn’t mean we don’t have an ageing population issue.

*Quicker NHS treatment, more social housing, improved child support system, better social care services, supportive benefits system, and more work and training opportunities would all reduce the cost”

yes but this would cost billions and many wouldn’t want to pay plus it’s long term thinking which our gov doesn’t do.

Nobody is paying anywhere near enough NI to cover the vast range of services demanded of the NHS. That's the problem.

Nobody is paying anywhere near enough NI to cover the vast range of services demanded of the NHS. That's the problem.

exactly, the government have got away with not planning for anything because so many people don’t seem to get it.

There's no 'ageing population issue'. They worked for decades. Younger people won't be young forever and the ones suggesting older and retired people are worthless will soon change that attitude when they're the older ones.

Someone posted on another thread about how people's value and contribution to society can't and shouldn't be measured only in financial terms. Although anyway hasn't anyone heard of the grey pound?

There's around 2 million pensioners in poverty (and that's increasing) but all need to buy necessary things like food from shops. The less disadvantaged, the grey pounders, also spend on other non essential purchases, paying tax every time they do (VAT). Their spending helps reduce benefits cost as they're helping to keep those businesses afloat and so more people in employment. If they have social or health care needs, they're also keeping lots of health and social care employees in their jobs. Which reduces unemployment.

There's no 'ageing population issue'. They worked for decades. Younger people won't be young forever and the ones suggesting older and retired people are worthless will soon change that attitude when they're the older ones.

Perfectly illustrating my point!

Understand the point about pensions, but while taxes are so high + suppressing wage growth, it's hard to take steps to secure a good financial future in retirement. It's a chicken & egg where everyone seems to lose at the moment :(

There's around 2 million pensioners in poverty (and that's increasing) but all need to buy necessary things like food from shops. The less disadvantaged, the grey pounders, also spend on other non essential purchases, paying tax every time they do (VAT). Their spending helps reduce benefits cost as they're helping to keep those businesses afloat and so more people in employment. If they have social or health care needs, they're also keeping lots of health and social care employees in their jobs. Which reduces unemployment.

And yet “The elderly’s lower incomes also mean lower spending, and so revenues from VAT (which is added to the price of good and services) are also lower for the elderly. Finally, National insurance contributions are not paid on pensions, further reducing tax revenue from the elderly. Taken together, the ageing population will therefore likely reduce tax revenue per person that the government receives, though this will be somewhat offset by higher average retirement ages.”

Don't worry, Palantir is almost certainly even now churning through our collective NHS data and working out who to save and who to dispose of, ably abetted by AI...

To preserve what's left of social housing in England perhaps Rtb should cease?. Scotland did this in 2015 and before that high pressure areas were off limits in other words sought after area's.

FFS.

If the government lifted the two-child benefit cap, that would lift over a million children out of poverty. They would then have a better chance of thriving across all vectors as they become adults.

IT IS A VERY GOOD INVESTMENT for the country.

I'm so sick of short-sighted stupidity around the welfare system. Such blindness, meanness and fear.

A good welfare system is part of a healthy and prosperous society. It's a long-term growth plan.

@Thevelvelletes Ending RTB would definitely help reduce benefits cost. Lots of people need benefits because there's not enough social housing. I'm sorry about your situation btw. That's another issue often ignored. Lots of businesses don't want to hire older employees.

I don't want to take over this thread (I can't seem to help being drawn to Basher threads) so I'll try to step back now.

As I said on another thread though. All these complaints about 'the burden of an ageing population' is starting to make DH and I think we might just up our drinking, binge on junk food, take up smoking, and stop all exercise when we hit 50 or 60. Then we won't last long as we'll die from massive heart attacks and that solves the 'issue' of an ageing population. Our DC will be upset but it seems from these threads that lots of other people will be pleased.

Understand the point about pensions, but while taxes are so high + suppressing wage growth,

Wages are crap in the UK with barely any growth. 55k today is equivalent to approx 30k in the early 00s and there will be plenty of jobs that paid 30k then & don’t pay much more now & plenty of people telling you 55k is an amazing salary today. We didn’t really recover from the 08 crash but low rates masked that & inflated assets plus throw in Brexit.

Because parents weren’t told that if they have a kid they would then get benefits.

I was told when I started work that if I contributed full N.I then I would receive a state pension.

@Againname do you understand there is a difference between acknowledging there is a factual demographic shift which is already causing economic difficulties & bashing older people? And whilst you & your DH can do whatever you want how will two early deaths make any difference? What a stupid thing to say.

It won’t lift them out of poverty, perhaps on paper but not in real terms as SO MANY people would not spend the money where intended

I was told when I started work that if I contributed full N.I then I would receive a state pension.

Do you always believe the government?
Not every pensioner has paid NI otherwise pension credit wouldn’t exist.

Because parents weren’t told that if they have a kid they would then get benefits.

My parents were, they got the equivalent of child benefit which used to be universal.