How is the current benefits system sustainable?

[OneLemonOrca]

This is kind of a sub thread from the public enquiry thread about child development.
More and more people are being diagnosed with autism and severe anxiety, and being deemed unfit to work full time or at all.
I am wondering what is going to happen or how this will actually be sustained. Is there going to be changes in eligibility to benefits? Is there anyone that actually knows?

It’s worse than that.

Nearly 80% of people don’t pay enough tax to fund their share of the costs so are still net takers from the system.

Having a economy where 20% of people subsidise the other 80% to varying degrees simply isn’t sustainable in the long run.

I know I'm going to get flamed for even asking, but how can cash help anxiety? Unless it's to spend on counselling I genuinely don't understand.

Let's have a look at tax evasion and loopholes ... don't think government wants to look at that somehow.. might upset some of their friends.

I have a supportive partner and support from social services. My DH also has a good paternity package, he had six months paid paternity so he was with me for all that time when the dcs were babies. Then we had the dcs in nursery from age 2. I use holiday camps and after school clubs daily so I don't have the dcs for too long on my own, and we live within walking distance of DH's office so he isn't out of the house for hours with a long commute.

Awesome! I am aware of my disability I also get help from social services but through mental health social work. But I am so worried that if I had a child I wouldn’t get support and they’d be traumatically taken away from me because my disability is so severe. What kind of support do they offer you? How do you manage?

I completely agree and I say this as someone who 1) has a diagnosis of autism myself and 2) has been a PIP claimant in the past.

@Janjk I have a feeling Door Path may be being ironic.🙂

There seems to be a sizeable proportion of people who believe that the money can be found to fund an ever increasing welfare bill. The reality is that enough working age people have to work and pay into the system or the whole thing grounds to a halt.

Especially in a globalised world, where people at the top of the pay pyramid are increasingly mobile. I am afraid though we are shouting into the wind. Too many people want to believe that the money can be found.

I can only talk for myself. I have bipolar disorder and GAD. I was off work for 5 years when first diagnosed and they were playing around with the different medications and combinations. I claimed ESA and PiP.

I've been back in work 4 years. I'm in a senior management position and work full time. Being back in work had done wonders for my mental health. I've taken less than 2 weeks sick in all that time and that's only because I was hypomanic and on heavy meds.

I'm not saying that just because I can do it anyone can, as we are all individuals and affected in different ways. But I do believe many more people could successfully work if given the chance and given the confidence to get back into work with a supportive employer.

If the top 1% have the majority of the wealth, logically they should end up paying the majority of the tax. Its something like the top 1% have the same as the bottom 70%

The uk has more income inequality than most developed nations and even bigger wealth inequality. So tax would reflect that.

Poverty and being unable to afford basic needs obviously affects anxiety. It's then a vicious circle because stress affects physical health. I mean severe stress (like serious poverty especially for a long period). So then someone becomes even more ill and even less able to work.

I agree with the OP that the current false economy system isn't sustainable. Too many people are needing benefits (or needing them for longer periods of time) because of the failure to invest to save.

Benefits cost would be cut if people had access to timely and effective well-funded public services.

NHS
Social care
Social housing
Improved child support system
Work, education, and training opportunities
Supportive, not punitive, benefits system

Lack of or delayed access leaves people in more need of help (and not just financial) which is terrible for them and also expensive for society.

Income and wealth are 2 very different things.

@Teentaxidriver

How do they all work if, even if they were well enough to, there's not enough jobs? 916,000 job vacancies but over 1 million people on jobseekers benefits (that's not including people on sickness benefits).

I agree though the benefits bill should be reduced. Could do that if the false economy approach was dropped. Too many people end up on benefits because of lack of timely and effective support and help, lack of social housing, and failing child support system.

Trust me, with the way benefits are going, even Labour would do something

Sadly and there is no doubt about it, some people do abuse the system making it worse for those genuinely on benefits

Look around you - I've worked for social services and encounter many on benefits and may on what was DLA/Att Allw - trust me I'd seen a few. TBH, I don't blame them as the system is there to be played so the gov needs to do something. This in turn impacts the hardest those that are genuine

I've said this before - when I was younger and in a half decent factory job the only factory job I had - if I'd left work (we had three kids, young one all under the age of 5 - if I'd jacked in work and because we had a considerable mortgage - I would have been a few quid better off - if I took away travel costs and the daily 45 mins overtime, I would have been much better off - it was a 43 hour a week plus hours unpaid lunch - hour getting there and an hour back - I talked it over with my parents and dad warned me - "Dont be a fool for the short term, get a better paid job' - I night studied and then left for another job better paid etc. If I had left, I would have found it really hard to go back to work and would not return for less or even a bit more it had to be a lot more. Thnakfully, my parents were aware that working hard and being prudent with ones earing does have its rewards. NB, I am not referring to the genuine majority that claim benefits

Out of the fabled 916,000 job vacancies,I wonder how many are unworkable IE the zero hrs ,the 8hrs a week,the middle of nowhere jobs,farm jobs where you stay onsite for 3 months, hospitality where you rarely see an over 30s person ,age being used as a barrier, disability etc...its not so black and white situation.

Yes I know.

We have both income and wealth inequality.

It doesnt therefore seem a surprise that we have a big group people not covering their costs and smaller group paying for stuff.

If we had less income inequality we could share it more evenly.

And thats before we get to wealth and the whole Patriotic Millionnaires idea.

A lot of the income equality is regional though. Salaries for many jobs in London, for example, are much higher but then cost of living is far far higher too so overtaxing families there in some crude way by just doing it based on PAYE is no longer working. They are all leaving. In other countries, if you have eg 3 kids and live in an expensive area there are deductions on your tax form for this. My brother lives in Zurich and he gets to deduct loads of stuff from his income. There is a proper acknowledgment that kids cost money and are a long term valuable investment for the country.

I am struggling with the concept that some posters find it seemingly incredulous that a person can have autism themselves and then go on to take care of their own children who do/don’t have autism.

how about those of us who were not diagnosed until later in life? 45 in my case and only last year and mainly due to one of the asd doctors at Alder Hey recognising that I was displaying the same traits my son has. I have masked my whole life and am a classic underachiever in the sense that I was ( and still am ) a quite intelligent person, verbally very strong and come across as very outgoing and extroverted when I’m anything but.

my dc are 21 and 13. My 21 year old was diagnosed with autism aged 8. He is completely and utterly different to his sister who was only diagnosed last year when she was 12. We all know it is a spectrum blah blah but all 3 of us present with such different issues but yet still have some we share, it’s baffling.

I didn’t know I was autistic and I didn’t know i would have 2dc with autism but we muddle along. My son claims pip due to his crippling ocd and anxiety more than his autism and I don’t claim DLA for my daughter despite her being absent from school since last October with severe anxiety and agoraphobia. Nobody knows how hard my life is because we just crack on with it, what choice do I have? Also I have a life limiting condition which causes severe pain and we don’t have any support really. Autistic people can and do cope but clearly there are many who can’t and know their limits and capabilities. It’s not as black and white as that though in most cases.

The WCA is set to change, as in be scrapped altogether. The sickness element of UC will be for people on PIP.
People on PIP are being targeted now, and the bar set to be even higher.
So, get bumped off PIP, and be made to look for work.
And another proposal is UC is removed if you don't find a job in 12 months.

Together, that is fucking terrifying.

British gas increased it profits 10 fold.
Supermarkets doubled their profits
Sercos profits are 240 millionish.

Theres loads on money flying around.

Maybe taxing work isnt the way forward.

Maybe taxing data movement would work.

People with autism don’t get benefits. They are not deemed unfit for work. It may be the case that they cannot get jobs due to discrimination. But they are considered fit to work even though only about 15% are able to actually secure a job.

I don’t think it’s surprise that someone with autism can raise children, but that someone with autism that affects them so severely that they can’t work any job but yet can raise children including children with disabilities themselves that people struggle to understand. I certainly don’t understand that to be honest. Of course there are many people with autism that do work and also have children.

A lot of schools have run out of money. There is a thread on here about a joint letter from Welsh Heads explaining there is no money.
All Heads have had to give the 'there is no money' talk to the staff room.
Yet, still, there are posters on here who believe that there is a magic money tree and that benefits should be available to all who don't fancy working or feel anxious. It is not sustainable and things have to change quickly, if local authorities, hospital trusts and many schools are not to be bankrupted.

You don’t have to get hired to be a parent. Nobody discriminates against you and says you can’t have kids because we don’t like you. It’s much easier for an autistic person to have a child than to get hired.

Also parenting a child in your own home is totally different to being in a work environment where there are loads of people and you have to interact socially.