Birth trauma - poor maternity tolerated as normal report says

[Justkeepswiimming]

Is this the experience of the majority?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4n1jv7xxpwo?trk=public_post_comment-text

I think we all have pretty grim tales to tell of Birth experiences. From both our own experiences and those of our friends. Are the resources just not there to care? I had a wonderful Midwife who delivered my baby, but prior to that had to beg for someone to check me once I'd been induced because I was in agony. Was written off as being a wimp. They wouldn't check me. I was in tears in a shared ward, on my own trying to make no noise. When they finally checked me they realised I was far along and sent me to the labour ward.

The next day I was desperate to leave, after finding myself with a male midwife who didn't even introduce themselves before starting to express me. A horrid experience. All round.

I've read lots of awful stories, and wonder how we've got here.

No im not being snide at all. Im saying why some HCPs think it is media hype fueled by parents who didnt know what to expect.

If you want links to charities where people can aid in reflecting on your birth experience and help you decide if youd like to do more, let me know. They can literally go through your notes with you and explain why some things might have occurred.

It rather depends if the notes are accurate though doesn’t it.

Its pretty obvious when notes are accurate or a decent level of care was provided.

How so? It’s entirely dependent upon the note takers intent.

Because youll see a lack of timely observations. Short notes. Just a general lack of concise, contemeraneous documentation to GMC/NMC standards

There are exact standards people have to meet. Often someone is referred to the NMC for X, further investigation shows a general lack of care over several unreported cases. Thats what they end up being "done" for.

I’m not shocked at all, my daughter was born in 2003 (Labour Government) and my experience was so horrific we only had one child. It most certainly wasn’t about money or resources then, truth was they were incompetent (for the labour and birth) and generally didn’t give a shit about aftercare.

SCBU however were amazing and saved my daughter’s life.

There is no way in hell my daughter will ever give birth on the NHS, I’ve literally been saving for 21 years and will continue to do so, so she can go private. Or she can use the money to go to her partners country and give birth there as they have a much better standard of care for women.

I am angry that in 21 years nothing has changed and women are still being dismissed, them and their children are injured and sometimes killed in childbirth needlessly.

I think there's a happy medium here. I had maternity care in the UK and it was poor. Then I moved to a European country and had everything you describe - but along with that came a very paternalistic bedside manner and an extremely high intervention/C section rate because it was all run by consultants.

The report is shocking and what some ladies go through is just awful.
It seems like a lot of the things I read though are down to poor communication. If the ladies going through these horrendous things had things explained to them either before, during or after... Maybe they wouldn't be so traumatised. It's unfortunate that the actual giving birth does carry the risk of severe injury and this has always been the case but the communication and aftercare just doesn't seem good enough when it does happen.

The poor poor lady whose thread is mentioned on the first page with the rectal tear...It sounds like the doctors likely did what they did to save the baby. No obstetrician would want to shove a baby back up the birth canal and do a section without very dire concerns for the baby, and unfortunately what ensued was an awful life changing injury to the mother. Maybe if the doctors had come to find the lady later and explained WHY what happened likely HAD to happen...she wouldn't feel that her care was negligent. I think the negligence came with the lack of communication and aftercare rather than the birth itself...

It seems a lot of it boils down to very bad communication a lot of the time.
I would also like to add for the ladies who are currently pregnant to please remember that the vast majority of births are absolutely fine and straight forward.

Also I hope something changes as a result of the reports but I doubt it!

Definitely the more involved and informed parents feel, the better they perceive the outcome in the end.

I speak about the possibility of caesarean as soon as it seems relevant. Others think this is pessimistic and tend to hide it until they think the doctors will mention it. I think it undermines the midwife and erodes trust.

May I make another point about the NHS in general? I have an adult child who has had frequent hospital admissions for a chronic illness. This demands catheters etc so no mobility. No nurse seems able or willing to assist with bathing or washing which to me is a fundamental part of nursing. No one available to assist with feeding, or ensuring that the bed is comfortable. I just feel that we have lost our way, if such simple but necessary acts cannot be provided. And don't get me started on the quality of the food! Absolutely dire. I don't actually think it's often about money. It just seems that it's often wasted on poor food. And I think that might explain a lot of the issues here. Not dealing with the fundamentals, not listening, not understanding. Almost 28 years ago I was told I wasn't in labour as I only had a back ache. An hour later I had given birth on the ward. Not even on the delivery suite! The midwife, who had just come on shift was great, but why didn't they think that a back ache is a sign of labour? Why?

@RedRobyn2021 thank you for your kindness

I think it is sadly the norm. I don't take any drugs, including paracetamol, because I just have a funny feeling about them. I had a natural birth but was really sick afterwards. I was given a drug via the cannula that I did not consent to and I had a very bad allergic reaction, stopped breathing and then had to be revived. I would never had said yes to the drug because I'm really wary of exactly that happening. My husband was then told to go home 30 mins later and I was left alone all night with a newborn. Barely half alive. I'd been awake almost 3 days at that point. Covered in blood and birthing fluids. Hadn't eaten in almost 3 days. And they wonder why the rates of ppd are so high when that's your (completely avoidable!!!) introduction to motherhood.

@Spitalfieldrose

I had mine in 2006 and nearly every day there were dramatic headlines about mw shortage, chronic under staffing and women and babies where dying.
Women would turn up to their designated birth unit and the doors were literally closed and they had to find somewhere else in that predicament.

Labour gov.

My mw however was wonderful.

I gave birth a few months ago (first baby) and delivery was fine and I liked my midwives. The maternity ward postpartum wasn't great. I didn't feel listened to. I felt judged. It was awful (although there were a couple of nice midwives). Must've been worse for the women who had c sections and didn't have full mobility.

@mitogoshi but this report isn't just about complications. It's also about the lower level of poor care that is written off as normal. The headline stories of awful complications are almost a distraction to this point. The point that lits of women accept low level poor care. I experienced no huge complications during my birth, however;

Did I feel listened to when I was in pain? No
Did I feel my pain was minimised? Yes
Did I feel I was listened to when I asked to be checked? No
Did I feel like a nuisance? Yes
Did I feel relaxed or safe at that point? No
Did I feel I was properly consulted over decisions made for me (eg having waters broken)? No
Did I feel like I was pushed into being induced because they had a quiet period after Christmas, and it was convenient to them? Yes
Did I feel uncomfortable about a male midwife post birth expressing me? Yes
Did I feel comfortable on the post natal ward? Categorically no.
Did I feel cared for? Only whilst in the labour room. Before and after that? No.
Did I feel informed about decisions such as breaking my waters? No
Do I feel my waters were broken to speed things up for their benefit? Yes I absolutely do as I was given no other reasoning for this.

None of the above are unusual statements. THAT is the problem.

I was horrified listening to it all on the news. I'm so sorry that you all had such terrible experiences.
Makes me glad my kids weren't born in the UK. I had been very nostalgic wishing they had been born here.

Goodness, you are patronising!

No, I don't want links to charities.

I am explaining something to you. Not asking for you to play the expert. I am explaining that your comment was inappropriate and ignorant. You seem to think that what matters most is whether or not women who have experienced a traumatic birth happened to be spot on in their medical understanding.

It isn't.

It is not on to criticise people who may be experiencing really severe trauma - with associated memory loss - and devalue their testimonies, just because you as a a medic can waggle your finger and say 'ooh, no, you got that wrong, how dare you not have understood what was going on'. Of course people will say things that are confused or clearly wildly inaccurate - won't they?

Why do you think parents 'knowing what to expect' is the issue? That inquiry included women who were medics themselves. If you have been following recent investigations into maternity care in Kent, Shropshire and Telford, Nottingham QMC and others, you will find more examples of parents who were medics themselves - even midwives - who reported the exact same experiences as parents who were not medical professionals.

Do you think their experiences somehow don't count, too?

It's not about bashing midwives. It's about recognising that this system is not working. It's not fair on midwives either. Midwives are leaving the profession in droves - there's a really frightening situation there. No one should feel unsafe in their work environment, and quite obviously many midwives feel they're not providing safe care. This is something that has also been acknowledged, many times, in independent investigations of NHS trusts where there have been scandals around maternity care. Virtually every time, pressure on midwives, and insufficient support, has been mentioned.

But hospitals aren't 'doing just fine'. Statistically, outcomes are poor. There should not be a situation where 1 in 20 mothers experiences PTSD. There just shouldn't. And there should never be a situation where black mothers are vastly more likely to see their babies stillborn. These are huge problems, entrenched in institutional organisation and in research/guideline bias. There is an enormous about UK hospitals could do better, and this report needed to happen, because otherwise, we can't argue for the added resources necessary to provide that improvement.

I actually blamed the journalists. I covered most of the things you said in other posts. I am not prepared to interact with you if you havent read them.

No, you blamed everyone. I have read your posts, but I do understand that what you must mean is you're unable to defend your unpleasant statements.

What a pity.

Just to quote you - since you seem to have a selective memory - you said

some of the reported stories are either incorrectly interpeted by the journalists or the parents have left the birth with an inaccurate understanding of what occurred

You blamed parents for having an 'inaccurate understanding'. You then said you could say that 'doubters within the system' thought these reports were 'parents literally making it up'.

Later on, you said 'the stories in the paper dont make scientific sense. The way they describe what happened, what went wrong, and what it caused are often messed up.'

That term 'messed up' indicates your contempt for people who have tried to remember and describe details of a traumatic experience, and who haven't been able to be as medically accurate as you seem to think is important. You seem to think that they've somehow failed by being confused.

They haven't.

I have to say I don't like the idea that most birth trauma is the result of women expecting a specific kind of birth and not getting it. There seems to be a narrative that we all came in wanting hypnobirthing and no painkillers and whale music playing in the background and when we needed medical intervention we felt traumatised. That's not been the situation with me and nor has it been with pretty much all of the women I spoke to who have experienced birth trauma.

I went in to it fully ok with as many interventions as needed, and even thought throughout that I would like an elective c-section. I bit their hand off when they offered to induce me for reduced movements as I wanted it over and him to be here safely no matter what. My emergency c-section was the only part of the whole thing that I felt safe during.

My trauma came from not being believed that something was wrong throughout my induction, being repeatedly dismissed and even laughed at. Even once my concerns turned out to be right, nothing changed. During my 5 day stay in the postnatal ward, I was literally shouted at by a staff member for crying as I was in so much pain trying to go to the toilet. This staff member mistakenly believed my c-section to be elective and complained to another patient in the room, loudly, in front of me, how people have c-sections to "avoid pain" then regret it.

Despite having prior mental health issues recorded on my notes, I was mocked repeatedly by staff as I sobbed all night with my crying baby, as if I was a silly little girl who hadn't realised how hard being a mother was and was now being taught a lesson. And no I wasn't a young mum.

Problems identified with my baby's health were not explained to me. Eyedrops were prescribed to my son and not administered in hospital when they were supposed to be, something only noticed at discharge. I heard staff complaining about me to each other in the corridor because I was asking for too much help. A piece of plastic from a swab was left in my child's cot overnight. Staff repeatedly got annoyed at me when my cannula kept falling out when I was changing him.

We were both fine in the end, and it was nothing compared to what others have been through, but I really resent the implication that our problems were all caused when we turned up with our vegan, reiki, hypnobirthing plan expecting to give birth silently as the full moon rose in the sky. I genuinely believed that me and my baby would die and I felt completely powerless and confused as to why nobody seemed to care.

@toothypeggys, that is awful. It doesn't sound like 'nothing' compared to anyone else, either. It sounds horrible.

I think you are so right that it's assumed women who had difficult labours expected whale music and an easy time.