Are schools to controlling or snow flake parents/kids

[Silverlinning]

I have noticed lots said about schooling lately. One of my children did not cope well in school and I had to take him out . My other children were fine.

But I am wondering if schools are becoming a bit to controlling. Some examples I can think of . At my Dd school if their home work is due to be in by Friday. If its not done by Wednesday. They get made to go to homework class on the Thursday to do Fridays home work. So basically Fridays home work has to be done by Wed.

In the summer when it's hot kids are still made to wear awful blazers. Whilst the teachers are in clothing suited for the weather and are In control of if kids can take their blazers off.

Toilets are mostly locked and children can't access them unless it's break time. Which does not seem right especially if girls on their period its heavy etc.

They get detentions if they are slightly late or if they forget a ruler. If they can't do pe due to a known injury they still have to bring in their PE kit .

Apprently this is to get them used to adult world. But adults are not treated that way are they ?

Last thing is children mostly who have school dinners sometimes don't get to eat because the ques are to long they spend their whole break quing for food and sometimes go without due to lunch ending.

All of these things were commonplace when I was at secondary school in the ‘90s. The blazer rule is and always has been ridiculous; toilets being locked during class time is about pupil behaviour and bullying, there’s no easy way to solve it, schools have been trying for decades. Teachers will always struggle to find a balance between letting young women who genuinely have their period go to the toilet and preventing young women pretending to have their period as an excuse to go and vape in the toilet or roam the corridors picking on other pupils.

Things like homework club are fairly sensible: many children lack the family support, space and suitable environment at home to do their homework and providing time and space for them to complete it at school assists with that. I had my fair share of detentions for being late and can look back and acknowledge that it was entirely my own fault for being late, I haven’t been caused lifelong trauma over it.

I think some schools are micromanaging behaviours too much and it can be really stressful for kids who want to 'be good' in those environments, because they are really worried about getting a negative points or a punishment for forgetting the right coloured pen or something etc. And I don't think those setups are great because the real world doesn't work like that.

We took a secondary off our list which was well reputed because the kids showing us around just seemed to list rules and rules about why this or that is not allowed and my DH asked them 'why can't you do that?' and they didn't know why, and we took that as a bad sign and a setting that would stress out our oldest.

I had a colleague who removed his son from a similar school because he was quite sensitive and the school's 'zero tolerance' on just about everything was just unbearably stressful for him.

The anxiety is because the discipline isn’t imposed equally and kids can’t predict what will get them in trouble. Some kids will be allowed to bully and harass other children constantly and this bad behavior will be ignored by the school, while other kids will get detention for sneezing. It’s based on a teaching model that tries to ignore bad kids when they misbehave, but overly praise them when they do behave. It was imposed in my kids primary school and it slowly turned into chaos.

The blazer thing pisses me off big time.
My daughter primary (yes primary) had blazers and ties from Year 1.
They weren't allowed to take them off. The head was all about "looking smart".
I went to a parents assembly thing once. It was in the hall - one of those ones with lots of windows so when the sun was out it was like a greenhouse.
The head came in wearing a suit (blazer/tie combo) - "Gosh it's hot in here" he said and REMOVED his blazer and loosened his tie.
But god forbid the children could do this. Oh no.
I lost respect for him right then.

I partly get what you mean . My dd gos to a home work club every Monday but it's a routine thing. But there's also a forced one that happens if a child has not done their home work by the Wednesday even though its not actually due till the Friday. To me that's controlling.

Totally get the toilet thing. But by the same token bleeding through clothes in school that would be awful. Or a bad stomach etc. I get the possible bullying vaping etc . But you would think something could be sorted.

That makes sense to be honest.. have heard lots of bully swept under the carpet and they often removed the child who's bullied apprently for their safety. Whilst leaving the bully with their mates with no action. Whilst a child who's quite timied will get into trouble for a non working pen.

"But you would think something could be sorted." Like what? Supervising the toilets? Schools can't afford to pay extra staff and can't get sufficient teachers to actually teach, let alone hang around supervising corridors and toilets. Until we, as a country, are prepared to pay the extra taxes it would take to adequately fund the staffing levels needed to deal with these problems then I don't see a solution.

I don’t disagree with you op- a lot of these rules are at best ridiculous and at worst removing human rights- like using the toilet! I would say I’m general adult life is more relaxed than ever, flexy working, no suits in the office etc so preparing them for adult life is garbage. Sadly I do think a lot of the issue lies at home, and in the crux of the issues. Toilets are locked because of bullying and drugs, homework clubs are because parents cba to help/provide the correct environment at home. The blazers rule is stupid- was the same when I was at school- buttoned up shirt and tie even in hot weather. And bring your pe kit with an injury is stupid. The list of rules at britains strictest school is even more obscene!

Sadly I’ve seen this too, and from and educational point of view the kids who can get ignored, the kids you can’t get every scrap of effort to make the grades, the bright ones are bored and left to their own devices

Maybe employ someone . I don't know the actual answer. I just know a child should not be leaking blood.

I must have gone to a pretty laidback school! Officially the boys had to ask permission to remove their blazers (girls didn't 🙄 because we had jumpers underneath), but when they started asking, almost all my teachers said immediately "you don't have to ask - just take it off if you're hot". And that was 18 years ago.

If they haven't done their Friday homework by Wednesday, they have to do it at school on Thursday. So, they can do their homework on Wednesday and avoid having to stay on Thursday, or they can go to the homework club on Thursday and the homework is done by Friday, which is the point of the exercise.

The blazer rules have always caused controversy, but schools I’ve worked in have insisted on ‘business’ dress for male and female staff, so suit or jacket, smart skirt or trousers.

Being in a school when you have to face groups of pupils roaming the corridors, ‘going to the toilet, miss’, is not fun. I’ve done it and faced the abuse. Or dealing with wet toilet paper thrown around the toilets, sinks bunged up with it, wet and slippery floors from water fights.

There’s no easy answer. If there were, schools would have adopted it years ago. There are some schools that many people find too controlling, but others love them and they have the sort of results that many want for their children. Maybe the timid pupils in those schools feel secure because there is such a rigid structure.

We are creating a school system with so many downsides, I struggle to see any benefit in such arbitrary and cruel rules.

Kids won't be able to think for themselves because every aspect of their school experience has been micro managed. When they reach university they will have no self motivation or study skills when the teacher isn't there to hold their hand or nag them. When you take away all these strict rules around homework deadlines and study times you find a lot of young adults just crash and burn.

Kids will also learn that adults talk shit and don't deserve respect. When headteachers make dumb rules that make no sense the kids see right through the bullshit. We are teaching children that adults can be cruel, for no reason other than a superiority complex.

We are breeding a generation of kids who will struggle to trust in or believe authority figures for the rest of their lives.

If adults in the workplace were treated this way they would have a tribunal case. But hey, at least it's "character building" to abuse our children, right?

‘Maybe employ someone’? Gosh, I wonder why heads don’t just think of that!

Maybe if the parents stopped their kids taking vapes into school and hiding them under sinks so they don't get caught if searched the toilets would be more accessible.

The home work thing is controlling though If its due in on Friday. Then it's due in on Friday. If a child wants to do it in Thursday sitting at home then they should be able to. If its not handed in on on time. Then they get a detention.

If kids are only allowed to use toilets at breal time theses things are going to happen regardless.

The school uniform could easily be tweaked there's no need for blazers for one. And as for asking to remove them when it's hot or the child just feels hot they should not have to ask in the first place.

Why not approach the school with suggestions about the uniform and tell them you feel the homework rule is inappropriate.

Vapes are a very recent thing. The toilets being locked other than at break had bedn going on for a long time

At my Dd school if their home work is due to be in by Friday. If its not done by Wednesday. They get made to go to homework class on the Thursday to do Fridays home work.

What a bloody ridiculous policy. Let the children attempt to manage their own time to get the work done by the set deadline, and then if they miss it, put whatever consequence in place.

In the summer when it's hot kids are still made to wear awful blazers. Whilst the teachers are in clothing suited for the weather and are In control of if kids can take their blazers off.

I loathe this rule. My mum, who teaches secondary school, hates this rule more than any other rule at her school. She thinks it's ridiculously unfair and detrimental to the children learning when they're too hot and uncomfortable. And she can't defend it when a child asks her about it.

Things like homework club are fairly sensible: many children lack the family support, space and suitable environment at home to do their homework and providing time and space for them to complete it at school assists with that.

Providing time and space is good for the reasons you've said. Enforcing it before the homework is due is stupid.

Alot of what you mention is an individual schools problem, DDs school is in a disadvantaged area but is outstanding and has fantastic SEND support. I used to work in a neighbouring school with the same cohort and the experience of the children and staff was vastly different, my school enforced every rule, gave detentions for every tiny misdemeanor, SEND support was hit and miss, mostly miss and staff had new policies and processes and increased marking strategies thrown at them repeatedly. DDs school pick their battles carefully, have far better engagement and their results and pupil satisfaction reflect this.

Most schools will have to lock toilets because students damage them, smoke and vape in there, self harm and take overdoses. Girls have to learn to manage their periods and those that have particularly troublesome ones and other health conditions will be able to get a toilet pass to go to specific unlocked toilets during the day.

Detentions for petty things is an individual school problem, at DDs school they get three Demerits and then a detention per week for minor things, so you can be late as you got stuck in traffic, forget your pencil case as it is non - uniform day and still be fine. Her school also allow you to spend your credits on school equipment so you only get penalised once in the school day, you just pop to student reception and buy a basic stationery kit with whatever reward balance you have.

Homework is also an individual school issue, DDs school set homework and send home a set of knowledge organisers for each subject each half-term, the tasks are normally to review a particular section and focus on revision techniques to set them up for example years but the aren't penalised if they don't do it.

Wearing blazers in hot weather is fine, you can fit an ice block in the inside pocket, it prevents sunburn, cools you down faster when you sit in the shade and means students don't forget all their stationery as they keep it loose in their pockets. Most schools will have a policy where teachers can tell students to take their blazer off if they want and you will be surprised at how many students refuse and want to keep it on and of course you do have teachers on a power trip who refuses but you can complain about that specific teacher. In particular girls who don't want the boys to see their bras through their shirts. Also many schools have air conditioning and the classrooms can be freezing. I used to have an old room and it would reach 40 degrees and be awful then go teach in the new maths corridor where it was 17 degrees and freeze so it's good to have it incase the room is cold.

@Singleandproud Ice pack in the blazer pocket thank you very much

If you are not happy with what the school puts in place address it with them.

They might try to find a compromise for your child or they might not.

If you are still not happy you might like to look at other schools and think about moving.

We like the stricter system because it does help the kids who want to learn. The amount of chaos that used to go on before school became stricter was incredible, and their school isn't even that bad. But it spilt out into lessons trying to get to the bottom of the chaos.

Not sure how usual this is but say start lessons at 8.30, break at 11, lunch 1, afternoon lessons 1.45 home 3.15, so 8.30-11 is the longest you need to wait to go to the bathroom. And yes some work is like that.

Perhaps it's the entitled teenagers nowadays who thinks the basic rules don't apply to them and their parents who will automatically blamed the school for everything and refuse to believe their precious angel could do anything wrong. This happens more than you think.

I did say I partly get the toilet bit . But rest no ... blazers in hot weather... can't take them of without permission ....controlling .

Home working having to be handed in (before) it's due ... controlling.

Bringing in PE kit even though child can't take part.... controlling.

Punishment over forgetting a small item ... controlling.

This thread was not made for my own situation. As dd follows theses stupid rules. But that does not mean they are right .

It's nothing to do with precious angels. Would you want to sit on a blazer in the buring hot heat sun blazing in the windows. Would you get punished at work if you forgot /lost a pen .